Noob pattern edit > save to new slot

Elektron Gear Analog Keys/Four
#1

I find myself accidentally overwriting saved patterns. What I’m trying to do is simply edit an existing pattern and then save it to a new slot:

  • load a saved pattern (a)
  • edit pattern
  • copy pattern
  • load new slot (b)
  • paste pattern (b)
  • save pattern (b)

With this approach I overwrite pattern a because when I move to slot b it saved the new pattern under slot a automatically.

So to avoid this I first need to think carefully if I want to edit a pattern and copy it to a new slot before I start editing. But this feels really counter-intuitive to me. How can you copy a pattern to a new slot without overwriting the exiting one?

#2

Why not copy from A and paste in B, then edit either A or B as required?

#3

Sorry if I wasn’t clear.

The problem is that I don’t want to think beforehand if I’m going to edit a pattern to save it later. I want to just load a pattern and start toying with it whenever I feel like it. Currently I cannot do that because I then have to choose between 2 things I don’t want: 1) overwrite the exiting pattern 2) lose the just created pattern.

So I’m looking for a way to save recent edits into a new pattern without overwriting anything.

#4

I’m struggling to understand your dilemma.
On the AF, in the PATTERN menu, you can SAVE PATTERN so that it can be recalled later.
Or, when you feel the urge to tweak, simply copy the pattern to an unused pattern location and tweak there.

#5

First rule of Elektronaut is to save, save, save

#6

Save your copied pattern as a new kit.

#7

I guess I’m just used to a different workflow. On a Cirklon for example, when you alter a saved pattern you can choose what you want to do with it, like store under a different name/slot, and it warns you when you overwrite the saved one.

The A4 workflow is more like a midi clip in a DAW. If you want to make a new version of an existing clip you copy it and then start tweaking. I’m not used to that in hardware. The autosave feature puts me off.

But OK I’m sure I can get used to this if everyone else can.

However that brings me to another question. What if you want to tweak patterns non destructively while performing live? With the autosave you’d have to remember to reload your pattern just before you move to the next?

That seems highly impractical for a device which seems to be focused on live performance. I’m just getting into song and chain mode so forgive me if I missed something.

#8

I think you can do that in a live situation pretty comfy.

The main focus point on Elektron hardware is the following:

a Pattern is an entity related to a Kit slot.

If you “load” a pattern (e.g. A05) you have already it saved in that position related to a specific Kit.

You can start tweaking…once you are satisfied, Copy it and paste it to , say, A06. Save this position too.

Jump back to A05 and reload the Pattern (NO+PATTERN on minikey).
You have now 2 versions (patterns).

They are both related to the same kit. If you alter things (e.g. Filter Cutoff on T2 and T4) on A06, those will happen on same tracks on Pattern A05.

NOW

you should make a choice:

• leaving the 2 patterns sharing the same kit;
• copying the kit to a new slot and starting to have two independent entities.

Stick also with the idea of WHAT is related to Pattern-entity and Kit-entity.
For example the Arpeggiator settings are saved within the Pattern-entity.
While Performance Page is saved within a Kit.

In a Live situation the Pattern-reload is your friend…because you have a saved state, right?
So you can start tweaking things following your inspiration…then you can jump back to saved state hitting the combo (NO+PATTERN).
You can also keep growing the live-flow by copy/paste Patterns onto new slots.
Keep in mind the pasting action is not immediate (you will loose some steps at the beggining of the new pattern)…but this will not mess up things too much…for me =)

#9

save what you want to keep, don’t save thereafter, save when desired and use reload as a way back to a saved state

there’s a caveat to the above workflow, but i think it’s what you could use

#10

Thanks sicijk. I get what you’re saying about the kit pattern relation. But with the pattern copy + reload approach I don’t end up with 2 different patterns

I load a saved pattern like A05, and start tweaking. Then copy and paste it to A06 and save A06. Then go back to A05, hit reload, nothing changes and I’m stuck with the tweaked version.

So unless I’m missing something it appears as if the patterns are always autosaved when you move to the next. So there is no way to reload the pattern once you have tweaked it and moved to a new slot. :confused:

#11

@avantronica, yes that sounds like a sensible workflow, only I can’t get it to work. Am I doing something stupid? After the switch to a different slot the reload pattern function doesn’t work for the original.

The only way I can get this to work is to hit reload on the original pattern right after copying the pattern but before pasting it in the new slot. But that is really tricky because you’d have to be very aware that you edited a pattern and prevent yourself from switching patterns by accident before you hit reload.

#12

jeez…you’re sadly right!!

I don’t know what’s happening…Please if other can confirm this.

I was completely sure of the behaviour I described--------This really kills some workflow.

Hope someone can chime in.
Sorry 0x80…to have said bullshits

#13

Ooooh yeah…PASTE PATTERN? …PATTERN PASTED
!!!
I had never seen a question mark on Pattern actions…nice!!!
Thanks!!

#14

I forgive you for bullshitting me sicijk :wink:

I completely missed the link that avantronica posted :zonked: So I figured out the hold and paste. Too bad it only works in sequential mode though!

Wouldn’t it be nice to have a simple system option to turn off autosave for patterns? Then you can leave it on if you will when writing, but for live you can turn it off. So while performing you can mess with the patterns all you want, and you know you won’t mess up your saved data unless you explicitly save a pattern!

This seems like a really simple feature to implement.

AND in the studio it allows you to mess with existing pattern and then copy it to a new pattern without breaking the saved one (in any playback mode) The slot move would then make you lose edits on the original, but being able to paste the freshly copied changes to the new slot. Basically functioning as a save-as!

Two birds, one tiny pebble?

#15

There’s always project save and reload to be used as well.

#16

RE-reading the manual would have give me some more cues about this behavior.

If you make changes to a pattern, the saved state will substituted with a buffered version.
If you copy/paste to another slot and then save the pattern…this will make the buffer becomes the saved state, so the before pattern will follow…

It is like a background behavior.

So…coming back to live situation…your Patterns (already programmed and saved) will be your playground as long as you play within its slot.
This way, reloading will work as expected…

After one year of A4… I can say I am still discovering character nature of this beauty--------wooof

#17

I don’t think so. The pattern is overwritten when you switch to a different slot, period. Regardless of copy/paste. It’s the switch that triggers the overwrite save.

I would still really like the option to switch that off.

This is hardly usable imo. Once you move to a new pattern it’s overwritten. I would not want to think about these things while jamming. Also I havent tried it but I assume that if you are in chain mode, the pattern gets overwritten by the chain switch. So no time to reload in those cases I think.

To be honest I am surprised that many people seem so impressed with the current features and behaviour of the sequencer. Apart from parameter locks I feel mainly underwhelmed. I think there is a lot to be gained still, and some of it is basic stuff.

Project reload is a solution to get back your saved data, true. But I don’t think it fits in any sort of live/studio workflow.

I’ll stop nagging now, but I’m hoping Elektron will implement something that allows you to really mess around with patterns live, because currently I consider this part limped at best.

#18

here is a simple workaround, which IMHO should be implemented more elegantly for a 1000 + Dollar fun box …

have Patterns A1A2A3A4 with corresponding KIT1KIT2KIT3KIT4 saved.

copy these to A11A12A13A14 with corresponding KIT11KIT12KIT13KIT14 … when jamming never touch a1 only a11, if you messed up too much on a11, just go for the copy paste pattern option, which will copy the pattern with the KIT, however, unfortunately you would have to rename the KIT again I think …

have my A4 for 1 year now, this might be the first time I am actually “properly” addressing this issue…shame on me :stuck_out_tongue:

0x80 : you have a VERY good point made in this thread

#19

I think that would be much more than just ‘nice’. :slight_smile:

Pattern autosave seems so at odds with the rest of the A4’s functionality. It’s no wonder there’s so much confusion about this.

#20

Thanks, it’s good to know I’m not crazy.

I shouldn’t have started the thread with “noob” because after all it had nothing to do with me being new to the machine :joy: