Probably a bug in the Pickup Machine but worth asking

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#1

Hey guys. So i’m 1 week into using pickup machines with my kickass DMC-6 pedal. My setup is OT as a master, Tracks 1-4 are PU Machines and tracks 5-8 are Thru Machines for my Analog Rytm, Analog Four, OP-1, and tiny Mic Preamp, respectively. I’ve allocated the memory so all the recording memory is on tracks 1-4 only. Ideally I make my first pickup loop on track 1 from live-playing the op-1. Then I hit Play and the Analog Rytm starts playing in time and I continue making loops of the OP-1 and A4 on Tracks 2 and 3. Once I feel good enough there I make a vocal loop on Track 4. Everything is ok but I somehow am unable to overdub on any of my tracks. I keep getting that “p1 dub aborted” message. Also weird is sometimes when i make my loop on track 2 it’ll change the BPM as if it was track 1. I had to use QRec an QPlay to fix that one but I don’t want to do that, I want all my loops to be free.

Anyway, I have a few questions to make sure I’m doing things right:
1 - How do i discern which track is Master and Slave, I don’t see a dedicated option to say definitely that Track 1 is Master and Track 2,3,4 are Slaves.
2 - What is this this “P1 Dub Aborted” message about?
3 - Should I be using the “Length” Parameter? And if so, how? Should Track 1 be OFF and Tracks 2-4 be on X1 or X2 or X4 or whatever…
4 - Is it necessary to use QRec and QPlay?
5 - Is there any way to lock BPM after the first loop?
6 - Do Dynamic Recorders mean anything to me?
7 - Does DUB or Gain setting mean anything to me? I always use DUB.

Any insight is greatly appreciated. I really want Pickup Machines to be The New Thing. They’re super useful when done right. I get to play freely with my hands and rec loops with my cool foot pedal and when I’m done I get to save the loop as a sample. That’s convenient! Once I get good enough at this I’d really like to incorporate DI bass guitar and stuff into the mix but I’m not cracking that out until I get my workflow down.

#2

I’d politely encourage you to search the forum and the user manual before posting so many questions, especially under the title of a ‘probable bug’ !

Also, keep it simple when you are testing out what works and what doesn’t

You’ll be better briefed opening up the manual and then seeking clarification
Here’s a link to the other search you would benefit from trying first, to see if your query has been answered (clue, it has)

I’m not one for rtm replies, but you do have to make a bit of an effort as a courtesy especially on elementary things spelled out in the manual and the guidelines do ask for you to attempt to keep the number of duplicate threads to a minimum

if all that doesn’t help you along the right direction then come back on specific points … maybe someone else will answer all this for you, but i’d urge you to read that section of the manual anyway

:thup:

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#3

Thanks. I’ve read the manual and it isn’t the easiest to understand. I’ve often found the responses from fellow Elektronauts to be the most informative. I realize i may have asked too many questions for the topic but I think they’re worth asking. The only real issue that I’m having is the lack of ability to overdub and the “P1 dub aborted” message. That is my primary concern. All other questions are in relation to that and whether or not they’re part of whats causing my dubbing problem. I do know what the Length parameter does, I do know QRec and QPlay are and why they do what they do. I know full well that making the first loop is the only way to lock the BPM and everything after is supposed to fall in line with that. I’ve read up on Dynamic Recorders and I still have no idea what they mean. I have a tenuous grasp on DUB vs Gain, but it makes sense that I want DUB so that’s that… But i keep running into dubbing problems and that makes me think there’s something I DON’T know. So maybe someone out there knows something that can help me figure this out quicker than I can on my own. Thats why I started this thread. Now let me me check out that link you sent…

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#4

i found this quite helpful:

"wolfgangschaltung Oct '16

OK, spend today playing with the pickup machines, here’s how I was able to reliably reproduce the “Pickup machine shows both Master & Slave icon” bug:

  1. Setup several pickup machines
  2. Make sure all have their length parameter LEN set to anything ≠ OFF
  3. Do a pickup recording into any pickup machine, this becomes the master
  4. Do pickup recording into the other pickup machines, these become slaves
  5. Either stop the playback of the master pickup, or clear the recording buffer of the master pickup (which also stops the master pickup)
  6. The pickup machine that lastly became a slave will automatically become the new master pickup…and show both the slave and the master icons.

I did this process repeatedly, clearing recording buffers at random, recording again into them, with the result that the master icon wandered around between the different pickup machines in a somewhat predictable manner (seems like the “youngest” slave becomes new master). Except for the graphic glitch (the slave icon not vanishing) I didn’t encounter any other misbehavior in this scenario, and a rogue slave icon on a pickup machine does not prevent that machine from becoming a master later on.

To me it seems that once a slave icon has been shown for a machine, its slave icon sticks with it, as the only way to get rid of them seems to power-cycle the OT. Stopping a machine, clearing its recording buffer does not make the slave icon go away, changing the machine for a track does not help (as changing it back to pickup brings the slave icon back), not even reloading the project helps.

I don’t know if there are other scenarios to reproduce this graphic bug. Please let me know if you know of one. I filed an Elektron support ticket with the steps above."

I’m going to set this up and try it out when I get home and see if it works for me

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#5

So we’re good for question 1 regarding the markings for Master and Slave (though you’ll have noted from that link above and this that the marker system is indeed prone to error)

No marker next to a playing P would denote that the LEN parameter was off, it will be a slave, the Master always takes the upper mark, even if LEN is off, in fact LEN has no use for a Master PUM

If LEN is other than Off, then it will ignore RLEN in the rec setup and adopt the value determined by LEN 1,2,4,8 x Master length

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#6

Yes. I have everything set up as it should. Tracks 2-4 work as expected but I still can’t overdub on my Master PUM on Track 1. Any thoughts?

#7

Re 5) you’d know you can lock the BPM to the initial PUM now you’ve browsed the manual (Track1+Tempo), so is that nor working, that’s one way the Dub aborted message will appear, especially if any of the other PUM tracks have varied the original set tempo, even slightly

Presumably as OT is master it has a steady clock (external clock being a common cause of dub aborts) and there is no LFO affecting playback of the Master PUM

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#9

Ooh I’d forgotten about Track 1 + Tempo. Thank you very much for that! That solves my tempo locking issue! Yes OT is the master and there’s no LFO activity going on but so far I’m still stuck not being able to overdub on track 1. However this isn’t a deal breaker. Just from the last few hours toiling away I figured I can just start a basic loop on Track 1, be it a kick drum or op-1 sample or whatever I need to get my tempo locked, and THEN I can start jamming as usual making loops and overdubbing on track 2-4. So far I’m playing this way and it’s going pretty well.