Rytm and Tempest redundant?

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
#61

That’s great thanks - I already have those, hadn’t seen the tutorial though - so thanks again. But nooooooo, I just get the impression that yours will be loads better…

I’m really curious, I would love to know what you guys do!!! Especially with making the A4 sound like the RYTM but also the sounds that you’re making for the RYTM too!!

Come on guys, share some stuff, pretty please??? It will only take a few minuteso to export em zip em up :+1:
[/quote]
We will see. I don’t generally take any computers to my studio space. I also don’t save my sounds outside of kits so I’d have to go through and sort them out. Do you have both AR & A4?
It’s not about making it sound like the RYTM. It’s more that you can do more with the A4 than you can with the RYTM. The A4 has the 4 voice handicap and no sample support. The RYTM has 8 voices and IMO would be kinda weak without sample support if they were to leave the Machines as is. I feel they must expand them and these were just temporary to get the RYTM into peoples hands. One can still get great sounds out of it. It’s fun how limiting the machines has made it more difficult for me to do what I hear in my head. I often have to resort to samples and augment them with the analog synthesis. The fx are cool when messing around but are ultimately useless as I’ll use the individual outs as soon as I get a new mixer. I keep falling in and out of love with both the Rytm and A4. I know I’ll hang on to them. Love my OT but you and I are not allowed to talk about the OT anymore! Haha!
Back to topic, Tempest has a great physical interface in that there are knobs everywhere. The envelopes were a little whack and required some creative ModMatrix stuff to get really great kicks. I actually miss the kicks I was getting the most. Outside of my modular, they were some of the best I’ve ever heard!
I really didn’t get along with the sequencer. Something just felt off about it to me. Had a few other software issues as it was new and DSI are very very very slow to update things. I want a Pro-2 so bad right now but I’ve had such bad luck with DSI updates that I’ll probably wait until next summer before dropping the hammer on that one. . . . probably.
The polyphonic stuff on the Tempest was awesome. My friend Baseck does some amazing work with his Tempest. The pads were definitely more playable than the RYTM. I dunno if we need to break them in or what but I don’t feel that I have any dynamic control when playing the pads. It’s either mash the fuck out of them or no sound at all! . . . except when using RETRIGS. For some reason that works but we can’t record them. Which is another win in the Tempest department.
I’ll keep the AR as I feel it will be better in the long run. They just need to open up the machines a bit. [/quote]
You don’t back up??? Eeek!!

Yeah, ok, if it’s a hassle then don’t worry!

Yep, have A4 & RYTM, think they’re very different machines and sound quite distinct from each other, but always wiling to be shown other ways!

Hehe, yeah re. the OT, but hey, moving on, happy to talk about anything, even if it’s about something not working. Just prefer to keep things in perspective and look at the positive even if things are frustrating at times. First world problems are not worth busting a vein over :wink:

Agreed re. RYTM pads, they are not really performance pads exactly. I’ve had some good times with the Quneo & RYTM though and someone was hinting that Elektron are working on the velocity curve implementation so there could well be some improvements there in the not too distant future - that’s hearsay though so don’t take it as writ.

Also quite sure Elektron will develop the RYTM a lot :)[/quote]
A Quneo would probably be awesome with the RYTM!! Cold probably assign different things to the pads along with note triggers. I use a Qunexus, SoftStep and 12 Step. Love their stuff.

#62

FWIW:
I am not “shit at programming drums”.
In fact, I won 3rd place in the DSI sound design comp for programming drum sounds and some beats.
Pretty much any subtractive synth can make pretty decent or awesome drum sounds.if you know what you are doing. That’s not the point I (and others) are trying to make.
It’s a good synth, it’s a terrible DRUM MACHINE.[/quote]
I think both the Rytm and the Tempest fall into this catagory. I dont have much experience with the Tempest but the Rytm is basically crap as a standalone drum machine. It doesn’t have the sonic pallette to cover many areas like the machinedrum could and it manages (like all Elektron gear) to squash the life out of your samples. However the Rytm is superb as a bass and sound fx box and it sounds beautiful. I imagine this is the case with the Tempest also.
So to summarize…both crap drum machines both awesome sound boxes.
Neither company would have sold as many if they called them sound boxes tho

#63

I am interested to know what you’re comparing the sample playback sound of the rytm to? To my ears the Rytm’s sample playback sounds rather decent…

#64

It doesn’t sound bad but compared to the same samples played from pc there is something missing in the dynamics and the volume is significantly lower. The Octotrack does exactly the same thing too.

#65

It doesn’t sound bad but compared to the same samples played from pc there is something missing in the dynamics and the volume is significantly lower. The Octotrack does exactly the same thing too.[/quote]
I like the sound. It fits the analog characteristics nicely.
I’ve started normalizing my samples which makes a world of difference volume-wise. I still have to replace the samples i put in before i started normalizing.

#67

This is simply not true::
Ot abc test [/quote]
I see nothing in this thread that dispells what I said. In fact it seems to support it. My language may have been a bit strong, it doesn’t squash the life out of samples as such but it does do something undesirable to them. Every other hardware sampler Ive had would give something benficial to a raw sample loaded in but the OT does the reverse and takes something away. Don’t get me wrong I love the OT but it did make me like elektron a little less. Also selling me a $2000 noise box in the guise of a drum machine (AR) that is really only worth a grand and almost handicapped in its features compared to the MD and doesnt do great drum sounds…makes me like Elektron even less.
Still a fan at this stage tho :wink:
Elektron please make me a machinedrum 2. With greater sample space, higher bitrate, the inclusion of an analog machine or 2 with the buttons and colour scheme of the analog series and usb overbridge support. Omg Im getting too excited.

#68

This is simply not true::
Ot abc test [/quote]
I see nothing in this thread that dispells what I said. In fact it seems to support it. My language may have been a bit strong, it doesn’t squash the life out of samples as such but it does do something undesirable to them. Every other hardware sampler Ive had would give something benficial to a raw sample loaded in but the OT does the reverse and takes something away. Don’t get me wrong I love the OT but it did make me like elektron a little less. Also selling me a $2000 noise box in the guise of a drum machine (AR) that is really only worth a grand and almost handicapped in its features compared to the MD and doesnt do great drum sounds…makes me like Elektron even less.
Still a fan at this stage tho :wink:
Elektron please make me a machinedrum 2. With greater sample space, higher bitrate, the inclusion of an analog machine or 2 with the buttons and colour scheme of the analog series and usb overbridge support. Omg Im getting too excited.[/quote]
Maybe it’s your personal taste, but I think the Analog Rytm is the best sounding drum machine on the market right now. The Rytm is a beast… the sounds I can get out of it still surprise me. It only appears limited, but there’s a vast potential for sound design.

#69

This is simply not true::
Ot abc test [/quote]
I see nothing in this thread that dispells what I said. In fact it seems to support it. My language may have been a bit strong, it doesn’t squash the life out of samples as such but it does do something undesirable to them. Every other hardware sampler Ive had would give something benficial to a raw sample loaded in but the OT does the reverse and takes something away. Don’t get me wrong I love the OT but it did make me like elektron a little less. Also selling me a $2000 noise box in the guise of a drum machine (AR) that is really only worth a grand and almost handicapped in its features compared to the MD and doesnt do great drum sounds…makes me like Elektron even less.
Still a fan at this stage tho :wink:
Elektron please make me a machinedrum 2. With greater sample space, higher bitrate, the inclusion of an analog machine or 2 with the buttons and colour scheme of the analog series and usb overbridge support. Omg Im getting too excited.[/quote]
Maybe it’s your personal taste, but I think the Analog Rytm is the best sounding drum machine on the market right now. The Rytm is a beast… the sounds I can get out of it still surprise me. It only appears limited, but there’s a vast potential for sound design.[/quote]
You might be right, I have always liked crispy break beats and the rytm sound is quite subdued in this area. I can see it being a good standalone drum machine for house grooves ect, industrial ect…and totally agree that its a superb sound design machine which often puts cheesy grins on my face when Im playing with it. I just dont feel that its a superb ‘drum’ sound design machine. Altho still very useful the sample side of it feels a bit tacked on with few controls to shape the sample independantly of the analog machines.

#70

This is simply not true::
Ot abc test [/quote]
I see nothing in this thread that dispells what I said. In fact it seems to support it. My language may have been a bit strong, it doesn’t squash the life out of samples as such but it does do something undesirable to them. Every other hardware sampler Ive had would give something benficial to a raw sample loaded in but the OT does the reverse and takes something away. Don’t get me wrong I love the OT but it did make me like elektron a little less. Also selling me a $2000 noise box in the guise of a drum machine (AR) that is really only worth a grand and almost handicapped in its features compared to the MD and doesnt do great drum sounds…makes me like Elektron even less.
Still a fan at this stage tho :wink:
Elektron please make me a machinedrum 2. With greater sample space, higher bitrate, the inclusion of an analog machine or 2 with the buttons and colour scheme of the analog series and usb overbridge support. Omg Im getting too excited.[/quote]
hm, let’s do a quick feature comparison
1.
1 voice
2 osc,
1 24db low pass filter
1 lfo
1 amp env
1 filter env
1 destination of choice for lfo and modwheel. (2 with some menu diving)
no fx
no sequencer
no keys/pads
no sample support
2.
8 voice, 12 track
…some tracks have more than 1 osc, so lets say
10 osc
12 multimode filters
13 lfo’s
12 amp env
12 filter env
4 velocity and aftertouch modulation destinations per track, with some basic calculations,
96 velocity and aftertouch modulation destinations assignable per kit
delay
reverb
distortion
compressor
13 sequencer tracks (even the fx have their separate track)
12 pads with velocity, pressure and aftertouch
sample support
you can get 1. for a meager 850 bucks in form of a Moog Slim Phatty
the 2. is, as you may have guessed from the incomplete feature list Analog Rytm, for 1500$.
i think i have made an excellent decision purchasing the Rytm. Miss my Moog SF and Vermona mk3 which financed the purchase, but that is nowhere near the joy i can get out of this box.
thats my opinion.

#71

It doesn’t sound bad but compared to the same samples played from pc there is something missing in the dynamics and the volume is significantly lower. The Octotrack does exactly the same thing too.[/quote]
ok, I understand where you’re coming from a bit better now. I havent made any comparisons A/Bing the Rytm sample output vs. the output from a decent DAC coming from a computer, but that is just because I never expected a “transparent” experience from the Rytm to begin with. Far more important to me is how the samples sound after being manipulated (changing pitch, bitcrushing/filtering etc.) and for that, at least to my ears, the Rytm is quite good for (way better than any nukai MPC for ex)
About losing depth - sure you are using mono 16bit 44.1kHz samples? If not, then of course you’re going to lose data, as the AR internally converts everything to this spec (and I have no idea on how well this conversion stage occurs).
About the volume being significantly louder, this is an equation that is a bit tuff to deconstruct. Quite alot of factors involved yknow… At least the main outs from my Rytm are outputting hella hot levels, need to keep everything gainstaged really low on m y mixers to prevent clipping!

#73

You’re just more easily satisfied with sub-par sounds, thats something different.

[/quote]
please show what you done that gives you any cred as drum machine user,

you know 100% your own sounds and own songs

impress “us” or stfu

#74

yet another potentially really interesting thread and discussion ruined by a rude individual.

There are better ways to release your frustrations than insulting random people on forums. You’re lucky I’m not a moderator. You don’t bring anything constructive to the discussion, and insult people who clearly know their stuff better than you.

This is the last time I address you, and unfortunately, the last time I visit this thread, since you’ve polluted it with your toxic attitude.

Cheers !

#75

You’re just more easily satisfied with sub-par sounds, thats something different.

[/quote]
please show what you done that gives you any cred as drum machine user,

you know 100% your own sounds and own songs

impress “us” or stfu

[/quote]
Seriously Clunky, way to derail a thread with a bad attitude and bickering. If you’re happy with the Tempest, great. Share cool things you did with it.
You’re picking a fight with someone who has solo Tempest performances up online. For example:

Whether or not the style is your cup of tea, SB-SIX clearly knows what he’s doing.

#76

Those drums don’t sound analog.
Furthermore, people are entitled to be arrogant cocksuckers if they chose.
It’s all the touchy replies and back and forth engagments that consume most of the thread

#77

Guys, I understand that you are all passionate about your analog drum machines however, please keep this discussion constructive and stay away from any personal attacks.

#78

IMHO that statement is just insane! RYTM is by far the best drum machine out there. As a standalone, it is more difficult to make full tracks than say a Tempest or Machinedrum, but it sounds way better than those machines (ok only a bit “better” than MD, more so different) I have used. I think it’s better used with other instruments to make full tracks, that being said def not “crap” by ant stretch of the imagination IMHO.

#79

IMHO that statement is just insane! RYTM is by far the best drum machine out there. As a standalone, it is more difficult to make full tracks than say a Tempest or Machinedrum, but it sounds way better than those machines (ok only a bit “better” than MD, more so different) I have used. I think it’s better used with other instruments to make full tracks, that being said def not “crap” by ant stretch of the imagination IMHO.[/quote]
I was having a bit of a whine that day. I shouldn’t have said crap. There is nothing about the Rytm that is crap.
I still think it’s average as a drum machine. Kicks are ok some quite good. Better kicks on my AK. Nice toms. Snares are rubbish (typical of a lot of analog drum machines). I don’t rate the sample abilities very highly. Too few controls to shape the sound independent of the analog osc’s
Everyone gets on my back for this opinion. I’m still waiting for someone to prove me wrong. Show me a vid with a cracking beat coming out of the Rytm. Don’t think you will find one.
Nicolas Lem couldn’t seem to do it. He made 1 beat and used it for an hour…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEpadpqkEw8.
Now I refer you to the same video for the reasons why I LOVE the Rytm.
What other box can sound like this ^ ???
And as a companion to a REAL drum machine like the MD it is magical.
1 last whinge…The Rytm is Elektron’s most expensive box yet feature wise it’s 1 of their most basic. Fairly cynical cash grab from Elektron I think.

#80

At the end of this post is one of my favorite Tempest videos and kind of shows what I’m talking about with the sequencer.

I think it’s fair to say that strictly speaking, the Rytm kind of owns the Tempest on straight up analog drum synthesis. The Tempest can’t achieve a decent snare without using sampled noise waveforms. But at the end of the day who cares?

However the Tempest has a special something that has thus far kept me enthusiastic about it even as I bought and sold a Rytm, and even as I find myself frustrated with some of it’s limitations. To me it’s almost like taking some of the things every Elektron machine does and marrying it in a box with amazing pads and a unique character.

The sequencer isn’t as deep in the sense of p’locking and grid recording. But it’s way more fun for live recording than anything Elektron save for maybe the Analog Keys. (the Rytm would be in contention if the pads were bigger and more responsive, and if you could live record retrigs.)

You’ll get much more versatile analog synthesis with a Analog Four/Keys.
You’ll get much more immediate analog drums with a Analog Rytm
You’ll get much more in depth midi sequencing with an OT/Monomachine
You’ll get much better samples (i.e. your own) with an Octatrack / Rytm
You’ll get much better automation in any Elektron box

But you can get a bit of all of that in one box with Tempest. And it has a sort of brutish American-ness to it. It’s smudgy and grungy and a bit rude.

So no, I don’t think it’s redundant. I think if you have EVERY elektron machine, you probably don’t need it. But if you pair it with one or two Elektron boxes it’s really, really good and nicely complementary.

This video shows off how fun it can be to jam on. The whole thing is good, but it really gets going in the second half. Cuckoo even likes it :slight_smile:

#81

[quote=“I do like the idea of a MD/RYTM hybrid with some true analogue voices and the rest all MD machines; that would be very nice indeed, but also highly unlikely :)”]
In the mean time I love having both, complimented by a Nord Drum 2 the scope of sound sculpting possibilities is vast![/quote]
I forgot to add Rytm pressure pads to my fantasy RYDrum UW+CF.
I might have to look at one of these Nord drums that you and about 8000 other people talk about on here. I have managed to ignore them thinking they were something like the Alesis SR16 but it seems they are much more than that.
Spent a lot of time with the OT this week and my opinion of it’s affect on samples has almost completely changed. I still feel that some higher end frequencies go missing but like you say it’s very quick to re-introduce them
and the smooth yet punchy effect it has on lows and mids adds up to something much nicer than the original.
As far as the Rytm goes, when all things considered I suppose it’s not far off what it should be price wise. It is a nice set of tools. I would love to see separate filtering for the samples. A threeway slide switch in the menu maybe for filtering_Osc/Both/Samp with the ability to save changes to the sample before sliding back to /Both.

#82

So no, I don’t think it’s redundant. I think if you have EVERY elektron machine, you probably don’t need it. But if you pair it with one or two Elektron boxes it’s really, really good and nicely complementary.

How could anyone not like the Tempest, It’s a synth. It makes music.

I would love and fully intend to get a Tempest one day. I’m always checking out used ads for a sub $1000 deal. Not there yet but not too far off.
The Rytm is always going to be a desirable box just as all Elektrons before it. I think however the Tempest could well be a future collectors Item.
You know the story “It was underrated in it’s time, it’s limitations are what made it brilliant”
I will grab one just in case, but mainly because it will be a new cool sound source to add.