Is the “5 to 10 increments” referring to the sample start on the rytm? This makes me think again I’m not understanding this process. Wouldn’t the rytm start points depend upon how far you space out the samples on the chain?[/quote]
Yes. Therefore you should space the (start points of the) samples equally within the chain.
Is the “5 to 10 increments” referring to the sample start on the rytm? This makes me think again I’m not understanding this process. Wouldn’t the rytm start points depend upon how far you space out the samples on the chain?[/quote]
Yes. Therefore you should space the (start points of the) samples equally within the chain.[/quote]
Thanks for your response. This makes sense, but how can one say without knowing how much (equal) space someone has placed between samples that the starts would be at “5 and 10 increments”? Even with equal spacing it seems the sample start would completely depend on how much space is between the samples, no?
Just place samples to the grid at equal intervals from the start of each sample, then consolidate and render. Effectively, you’re dividing the total length of the resulting file into 24 or 12 segments
Is the “5 to 10 increments” referring to the sample start on the rytm? This makes me think again I’m not understanding this process. Wouldn’t the rytm start points depend upon how far you space out the samples on the chain?[/quote]
Yes. Therefore you should space the (start points of the) samples equally within the chain.[/quote]
Thanks for your response. This makes sense, but how can one say without knowing how much (equal) space someone has placed between samples that the starts would be at “5 and 10 increments”? Even with equal spacing it seems the sample start would completely depend on how much space is between the samples, no?[/quote]
No.
One does not need to know the absolute length of the sample. The position (in the range from 0 to 120) for the sample-start and -end parameters is a relative value, in terms of 1/120 of the length of the sample.
Thanks guys for the explanations- I get it now as I was indeed thinking in absolute rather than relative terms of the sample length.
Here are my notes on the topic, not yet finished, the wording isn’t perfect in all places but it may help you.
A sample chain merges samples into one file. Both, the OT and the AR allow users to load a sample chain into a sample slot and then address individual slices. On the AR, the STA and END parameters of the Sample page define start and end points for the slices played. On the OT, slices are played by using the STRT parameter in the playback menu.
The AR can only play mono samples, while the OT can play stereo samples. Preparing sample chains with a DAW, render chains for the AR at 16bit, 48khz and convert them into mono. For the OT, render chains at 44.1kHz (16 or 24 bit) and do not turn stereo samples into mono ones.
A wav file containing a sample chain for the OT can take up to 128 slices, for the AR this number is 120 slices. These two numbers will be used to determine the render length in the DAW.
For the AR, the consolidated and exported sample chains will typically contain either 15, 30, or 60 slices. Say we have only 13 samples to build a chain. We then create a sample chain with 15 slices, the last two being empty.
For the OT, the consolidated and exported sample chains typically contain 12,16,24,32,48 (the OT also allowing samples to be sliced into 2,3,4,6,8).
Creating sample chains with a DAW
I use here Ableton but the principle will be the same for any other DAW. The most important idea is to equally space individual samples. If all samples in a chain have the same length, this is easy. If the length are mixed, identify first the longest lenght. Say, this is 4 bars, ensure than that any other samples with shorter samples will still occupy 4 bars in the timeline.
… somehow the picture does not show but the text says it all.
Warping: Depending on the type of samples combined in a chain, check whether the DAW should, or should not warp/timestretch samples.
When I assemble samples from purchased sample packs, these have fixed bar lengths and can be nicely combined in chains. With the BPM being not too different between the samples, warping them to a common BPM works fine for me.
Because samples do not have to have the same lenght if they are spaced equally and because the tempo does not really matter, one can increase the tempo to remove gaps between samples, so that they make up less memory. For chains created from purchased sample packs this will in most cases not be necessary.
Fades: Especially for one shot samples, ensure that they play out well before the next slides starts. In some cases you want to turn off the option “Create Fades on Clip Edges” in the Ableton Preference menu (under “Record/Warp/Launch”), sometime these fades come in handy.
Grouping: If I create chains of similar items, e.g. risers or impact sampes, I group things with similar sounds or styles within the chain. If there is a sufficient number of samples with the same length I also keep these together, or even consider creating separate chains for different bar length as this simplifies the process in Ableton - no need to align the samples in a chain one by one in the timeline but just drag and drop them from the session view into the arrangement view. (I first gather candidates from my sample packs in Ableton’ session view, audition and group them.)
Editing: If the sample are not from some professional sample packs, consider some using an EQ to cut things off below 30Hz. In the Elektronaut forum one user wrote that he always checks a few key frequencies, and dips them if necessary : 40 Hz, 200 Hz, 5k, 13k.
Creating a sample chain in Ableton
Once a sample chain is assembled and equally spaced out across the timeline in Ableton’s arrangement view, the samples are consolidated into a single file. Next, the file is exported. First decide upon the track that is exported. If the master track is chosen, ensure that no other tracks are playing and that unncessary effects etc are removed in the recording chain. The file type is .wav, the bit depth is chosen, say 16bit working for both the OT and AR, and normally there is no normalization necessary so that we turn these options off.
For the AR, make sure the correct Sample Rate is chosen (48000) and the option “Convert to Mono” is chosen. Very important is then the “Render to Length” option.
[table][tr][td][/td]
[td][/td]
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[/table]
… same here, the forum post does not show the pictures but the text has all the info.
Example I (AR): We have 13 four bar samples that we combine in a chain. We consildate the samples and during export we render to length 4x15=60 because 15 is the next higher length the AR can handle well with its splitting of samples using the STA and END parameters in the Sample menu. So, if 60 is the desired render lenght, we set 1:1:1 to 60:0:0 in the menu.
Example II (OT): I have 9 samples, each 2 bars long, in the Ableton arrangement view only bars 1 to 18 will be filled. I then choose the next lenght that can be cut in the OT, that is 12x2=24 in the “Render length” option of the Ableton export menu. In the OT audio editor I cut the file into 12 slices, although only 9 slices will have sound.
If the sample chain contains individual samples of different lenghts, we choose for the calculations the size of the largest slice length into which we divide the timeline.
In my Ableton template I have in the session view tracks for Impact Samples, Risers, Sound FX, Vocal samples, Vocal FX, Atmospheric samples, Synth samples, Musical loops, Top loops, and Percussion loops (see below under File naming for an explanation of what this includes).
In each session view track I gather groups with different bar lenghts. I then drag and consolidate these groups into a new track in the arrangement view. If among the Sound FX samples in the track of the same name, a group consists of 2 bar Sound FX samples, I name that track in which I consolidate and from which I export the wav file "OT Sound FX 2 bar slices”. It is then later easy to add sample and re-do exports if necessary.
Transferring the samples to the AR:
[ol]
[li]Connect the Elektron machine with a laptop via USB.[/li]
[li]Set the directory to which files are to be loaded: FUNCTION+GLOBAL, go to the SAMPLES subfolder, use the LEFT arrow to select “UPLOAD HERE” from the menu.[/li]
[li]Make sure the AR is receiving data over USB: FUNCTION+GLOBAL, select MIDI CONFIG submenu, to to MIDI PORT CONFIG and set INPUT FROM to USB.[/li]
[li]Open the Sysex C6 utility on the laptop.[/li]
[li]In the Config settings, select the AR as MIDI IN and OUT, tick the boxes for SDS Handshake, Use Extended SDS and Send SDS-1UW name.[/li]
[li]Drag files for transfer into the C6 file window.[/li]
[li]In the C6 file menu, the files for transfer need to be marked (!)[/li]
[li]Press Send and wait …. [/li]
[li]If on the AR the sample is to be linked to a particular track, first select the track with TRACK+PAD, double click SAMPLE and select an empty sample slot with the data entry knob D.[/li]
[li]In the Global menu, select the sample and make sure it is loaded to the project. The sample will now be loaded to previously chosen track.[/li]
[/ol]
Elektron provides a tutorial video for transferring samples and packs, which is identical to the info above but they explain also the creation of a project and the transfer of “proper” sample packs:
Here are screen shots from the AR Sample and Trig pages when I tested the result. The only settings one should watch are the level of the sample and make sure that the SMP is set to 1 and of course one should set some trigs to hear/test the sample chain. If the sample is longer, check out the LEN parameter on the TRIG menu.
Selecting slices/hits within the sample chain on the AR
For the AR: If you’re working with a chain that has 60 slices, then you’ll want to set start points at 0, or 2, or 4, 6, 8 etc. and end at 2, or 4, or 6, 8, 10, respectively. Each slice is 2 divisions (120 divided by 60 is 2) If there are 30 slices in a chain, then 0,4,8,12,16 etc for start points, with end points 4 slices after respectively (120 divided by 30 is 4) For a 30 slice chain, start points will be 0, 4, 8, 12, 16, etc. For a 15 slices chain slice 1 has the start 0, end 8; slice 2 starts at 8 and endpoint 16, slice 3 starts at 16 and ends with 24 etc.:
Invert these values for reversed samples.
The Elektronaut forum member AdamJay recommends to render 16bar loops for the AR, by turning them into two 8 slice loops, as 120 is divisible by 8.
Handling sample chains on the OT
Transfering .wav files to the OT is very easy. Selecte the USB mode in the System menu and drag files across into the AUDIO directory of a set.
On the OT, there is not much difference whether one uses a Flex or Static machine. As “secretmusic” wrote in the forum: “the only really obvious difference is that you are streaming static samples from the card, so there is no limitation on the size of them (aside from the size of your card, obviously). So if you’re doing 64 slice chains of ambiances, you will HAVE to use a static slot, as the OT simply would not have enough RAM to load the whole chain. In general, I try to keep the RAM free for resampling. So I favor static slots, especially since i tend to use long chains that would fill up the RAM very quickly.”
Select a track with a Flex or Static machine assigned to it. Load a sample into the sample slot list by pressing FUNCTION+PLAYBACK. Either select a machine or press the RIGHT arrow to go to the sample slot list. To load a new sample from the audio pool to an empty sample slot, select the sample slot and press ENTER/YES. The file browser will be openend. If a sample slot contains already a sample, press the right arrow key to access the audio pool without assigning the selected sample slot to the machine. Turn the new chain into the active sample for the track and press FUNCTION+BANK/EDIT to open the audio editor. Select the Slice submenu by pressing the Amp key. Press again FUNCTION+BANK/EDIT and select the “Create slice grid” option and choose the appropriate number of slices. If the chain was created in a DAW with equal spacings between individual samples, say no to “zero crossing align markers”. Next, consider creating linear locks for the slices by pressing FUNCTION+BANK/EDIT again (in the slices submenu) and choose “Create linear locks”. Now the slices are locked to the trig keys. Make sure SLIC is set to ON in the Playback Setup menu (if linear locks are created, this will be done automatically).
Check the ATTR submenu of the audio editor. Check whether LOOP MODE should be on or, depending on the nature of the slices and how you want to play them. If loop markers should be respected (ie slices should loop), set this to ON.
Select the appropriate Timestrecht option. NORMAL is an algorithm that suitable for most material. Note: If the TSTR parameter in the FLEX/STATIC PLAYBACK SETUP menu is set to AUTO, different timestretch settings can be applied to different samples used in a track.
The ORIGINAL TEMPO is the calculated BPM. Change this to the BPM that you know from creating the chains in the DAW. Press FUNCTION and turn the LEVEL knob for this. Watch the TRIM and LOOP LEN parameters changing to the value chosen for the render length in the file export menu of the DAW.
Next check the QUANTIZED TRIG option to choose an appropriate mode. DIRECT will make the sample play immediately once it is triggered.
Now go to the FILE submenu and save the sample settings.
To hear the samples play, make sure that the track is not muted. In SLICE TRIG MODE (FUNCTION+DOWN ARROW), the slices can be conveniently played back with the trig keys. If each slice in the chain is a loop, set LOOP in the Playback Setup for the track to ON. However, this then applies to all samples linked to that track. If set to AUTO, the settings can vary from sample to sample. In the ATTR submenu of the sample editor, one can set the LOOP MODE for the individual sample to ON but then one also has to set loop points for the slices: Go to the SLICE submenu and use the arrow keys to select a slice. Turn knob B to add a loop point, which should be then moved right to the start, above the S(tart) point. (Turning the knob for the first time to the left, does the job in one touch).
Note that a pattern in the sequencer consists of four pages. If the pattern scale is set to 64/64 1x, each trig will correspond to a 16th and four pages to 4 bars. If a sample/slice is 8 bars long, setting a sample trig, will retrigger the sample after 4 bars.
Playing long samples/slices on the OT
Assume a scenario in which a 8bar slices is to be played with the scale setup being 64/64 1x, so that each of the 16 trigs is a 16th note and hence the four pages represent four bars:
[ol]
[li]Enter Grid Recording mode and enter a sample trig by pressing the first trig key.[/li]
[li]If the 8 bar sample is a slice in a chain, parameter lock the slice by pressing and holding the TRIG key and select with STRT (knob B) the slice that is to be played.[/li]
[li]Start play of the pattern and before the four pages are completed, press TRIG+ENTER/NO twice to turn the sample trig into a trigless lock. Trigless locks are indicated by half-bright green trig LEDs. [/li]
[li]If LOOP on the track’s Playback Setup is set to ON, the 8 bar slice will be looped. However, there may be a click at the end of the 8 bars, which one does not have if LOOP is set OFF or AUTO (and the LOOP MODE of the ATTR submenu for the slice is OFF or ON) and if one then switches forth and back between a sample trig and trigless lock. Setting Loop points in the SLICE menu of the sample audio editor (turning knob B to the left to create a loop point covering the full lenght of the slice) and setting in the ATTR menu LOOP MODE to ON (LOOP mode to AUTO in the track’s Playback Setup menu). Ensure that you are outside grid recording mode to open the track’s Playback Setup menu with FUNCTION+EDIT.[/li]
[li]Switching from trigless lock to sample trig: Press the TRIG key of the trigless lock to turn it back into a sample trig.[/li]
[/ol]
Another approach is to use one-shot trigs, which however also requires re-arming.
A free running sample is another option: (1) Select the relevant track by pressing the TRACK key. (2) Outside grid recording mode, press FUNCTION+BANK/EDIT to open the Pattern Settings Menu. Use the DOWN arrow key to get to the relevant page for the track of choice and tick the PLAYS FREE option. (3) The track is now disconnected from the sequencer. When PLAY is pressed, the track will not start playing. Instead, use Trig keys 1-8 to trig disconnected tracks. This however requires a trig to be set (which will be re-trigged after four pages …). Alternatively press TRACK+PLAY to play the sample and TRACK+STOP to stop it. (4) Different slices can now to selected with the STRT parameter. (5) With LOOP MODE set to ON in the ATTR menu of the slice/sample and LOOP in the Playback Setup of the track set to ON, and no loop points set (using knob B in the SLICE menu) the sample/slice will loop. (Ensure that you are outside grid recording mode to open the track’s Playback Setup menu with FUNCTION+EDIT). Compared to the manual approach described above, I have a slight click when the slice loops. Setting a loop point for slices (turn knob B to the left to set one that covers the whole slice) and then choosing the option AUTO in the Playback Setup for the track, there is no click while looping! Note that in this case changing the STRT parameter to select a different slice, will only come into effect by triggering the machine again (with TRACK+PLAY). Monitor progression through sample/slice by pressing TRACK+BANK/EDIT and go to the SLICE submenu of the audio editor. Slices can also be selected with the trig keys by going into the Slices Trig Mode (press FUNCTION+DOWN arrow key, outside the editor).
File naming
Creating sample chains for the AR and OT, it makes sense to have a naming scheme. For the OT only ten characters of the filename are shown. By default the first and last five characters. In the preferences (“Personalization”) one can change this to the first and last ten characters. To differentiate in the menus sample chains, I have devised the following scheme that works well for most menus, providing all the information necessary to identify file names. With the displays being limited to the length of names shown, one could otherwise have two different filenames that appear identical in the reduced displayed version.
An example would be the file name “Imp01ARS0413.wav” telling me that the chain gathers impacts, including chrashes etc. The file number is 01 and the chain is created for the AR (this allows me to keep chains mixed in one folder of the computer with no risk of mixing chains for the different machines). In this example, each slices is 4 bars long and there are in total 13 usable samples in the chain. From this number I also know that on the AR, I must choose the STA and END parameters in the Sample page with respect to 15 slices. If this would be a chain for the OT, I would select slices by selecting the STRT parameter between 1 and 16. (Always going to the next higher number of slices the machine handles, eg 2,3,4,6,8,12,16,24,32,48 for the OT and 15, 30, 60, 120 for the AR).
The general naming scheme I use is thus:
11122:33:XXXX …. XXXX:45566
[ol]
[li]Kind of loop: [/li]
[/ol]
[ul]
[li]Voc: Vocal samples[/li]
[li]VoX: Vocal FX samples (incl glitched sounds)[/li]
[li]Imp: Impacts (e.g. chrashes)[/li]
[li]Ris: Risers[/li]
[li]Mus: Musical loops contaning multiple elements (e.g. synth & vocals)[/li]
[li]Atm: Atmospheric samples (e.g. sweeps, pads)[/li]
[li]SFX: Sound FX (incl sweeps and impacts)[/li]
[li]Syn: Synth samples (incl chords, stabs, bass)[/li]
[li]Top: Top loops (incl high frequency and sparser material)[/li]
[li]Per: Percussion loops (incl congas, claves etc)[/li]
[li]Dru: Drum kit material (incl kick, tom, bass, HH, claps etc)[/li]
[/ul]
[li]File number (distinguishing chains of the same kind)[/li]
[li]Elektron machine the chain is created for:[/li]
[ul]
[li]OT: Octatrack[/li]
[li]AR: Analog Rytm[/li]
[/ul]
[li]Type (the way it is likely to be used):[/li]
[ul]
[li]L: loops[/li]
[li]S: Single shots[/li]
[li]M: Mixed loops and single shots[/li]
[/ul]
[li]Length:[/li]
[ul]
[li]##: bar length[/li]
[/ul]
[li]Number of samples added to the chain. The chosen number of slices on the OT will then be the next higher option for slicing available on the OT (2,3,4,6,8,12,16,24,32,48) or the AR (15, 30, 60, 120).[/li]
Other codes that could be used are “D/W” to distinguish “dry”and “wet” recordings and the musical key of the slices. Or include the BPM and notes to whether slice samples were warped, or not.
Note: The last two digits indicate the actual number of slices in the wav file. The OT audio editor allows slicing for 2,3,4,6,8,12,16,24,32,48 slices. The export from Ableton is then done to the next highest number the OT can slice for. Say there are 19 slices in the wav file, we slice it on the OT into 24 slices. This makes it necessary to export the correct lenght calculated as follows: Say, the samples (which will become slices) are 8 bars long and we have 19 samples, we then export in Ableton from 1:1:1 to 192:0:0 because 8x24=192. If samples with different tempos are combined (using warping to a common BPM), make sure to check the ATTR submenu of the Audio Editor and enter the correct BPM so that the Loop Len in bars is correct (in the example, LOOP LEN should be displayed with 192).
Searching for “sample chains” in the Elektronaut forum, variious people are also offering sample “packs” for use with the OT and AR. Highly recommended are the discussions in the Elektronaut forum on using single waveform samples to create entirely new sounds from samples.
References:
http://www.elektronauts.com/t/sample-chains/1061/31356
http://www.elektronauts.com/t/sample-chains-coming-from-an-ot-user/12344/102226
http://www.elektronauts.com/t/sample-packs/12315
http://patcharena.com/tag/how-to-use-octatrack-sample-chains/
http://bit.ly/rytmcalc (a sample slice calculator)
https://soundcloud.com/groups/elektron-octatrack-sample-chains
Whoa! Thank you, Olaf! I might actually try to make some sample chains for the Rytm now. What an amazing bunch of info.
Olaf,
WOW!
Would you mind making that incredibly informative post a PDF and uploading it to the Files section?
This forum needs stickies, but that would at least preserve the great information and keep it from getting buried in this forum.
Thanks for taking the time to put all of that together. 
Thanks so much Olaf, this is incredibly helpful.
Having Adam’s thumbs up is a motivation 
… I regularly benefit from your contributions.
Copying my notes from Evernote here does not go well. I created now a Google Doc and converted it into a PDF file but the File upload in the forum does not work well … I’ll try later again.
This is a first draft and comments and corrections are welcome.
Best, Olaf
The file upload doesn’t work … tried it numerous time. Get always stuck here:
… neither does the view of the image work on my browser well.
It suggest the upload of the pdf is complete but nothing happens 
Any suggestions? I am happy to Email the document, or share the link to the GoogleDoc but I am not sure whether this is a good idea. The technology being this (valuable) forum could probably do with an upgrade 
Olaf
I’ll send you a PM…
As there are still issues with the forum’s Files section, I’ve uploaded Olaf’s PDF here:
https://copy.com/gIhdioIJfJVLmcrd
You can download or view it from that link. I’ll keep this link active for future reference.
Wow, this is very helpful, thanks!
Great discussion and resources. Thank you to all!
thanks!!
Impressive. I thought I knew all there is to know about this and manage to found very relevant information in the second paragraph !!
Thank you Olaf !!!
If I may : you might want to gather the inital data in a table that would compare OT and AR (and maybe MD if you have the info) on sample chain characteristics.
Maybe the right format for such data would be something like a wiki, or a googledoc ?
This would enable anyone to add info, no ?
Incredible good tutorial, awesome, just will print it out now.
Thanks … 
Thank you, just got it downloaded.
What a great community this is …