Strange steamy white noise character in most A4 sounds ? What is it?

Elektron Gear Analog Keys/Four
#1

Hi,

(I’m kind of noob by the way, but understand synthesis theory pretty well)

in all examples of A4 I see in youtube and in most of the presets I noticed something in the sound that reminds me of some kind of steam. Do you know the flute sounds that are have some steam (white noise, e.g pan flute) inside ? It seems to me like most I hear of the A4 has this steamy flavor and unfortunately it sounds unpleasant to me.

Know what I mean ? Most I hear has some special steamy or distorted character that reminds me of white noise (in some kind of color) being in the sound.

Does someone know what this is ? Maybe it is something I can avoid (maybe the reverb is crappy or the filter distort) ? Or is this just he character of the A4 ?

Answers are highly apreciated, I’m thinking of exchanging my A4 by something else. Also if someone finds better words than “steamy” for what I mean (if someone understands what I mean), would be helpful, thanks.

Best regards,
R

#2

Do you have examples that illustrate this precisely?
What about mk2? Is it also steaming, for you?

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#3

My favorite type of Ramen is “Steamy Flavor.”

Since you know synthesis theory pretty well, you know that some sounds may have the white noise oscillator turned up (OSC1 second page). You may also know that OVRdrive can cause sauna-like conditions.

Perhaps you should start with the init. program (“The Saw”–double click on a track and load). Do you get that noisyness? If so, you may have to include more information about your setup in order to troubleshoot.

#4

Hi,

@glitched: Thanks for answering. I’m aware of the noise OSC and OVR, maybe I should load some patches, I find a bit unpleasant and see if removing white-noise and OVR (if present) makes it better for my taste. If it does, I found what I need to avoid (for my feeling).

@LyingDalai: Have no access at the moment to the A4. Quick look in YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQNe5AkI4qk (most of it, e.g. at 3:20)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQq1VScFL2E (e.g. at 7:40)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DltxMohmhf8 (e.g. at 0:25)
If it is the reverb, I can verify by enabling and disabling reverb. Alternative would be using ext. reverb.

On MKII, e.g.:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytm_joYdzHU at 1:20
(which might be an indicator for OVR bugging me ?)

Or is it not white noise, but some subtile disharmony in the spectrum of the main OSC, that is typical for A4 ? I will try with plain saw, thanks for the suggestion.

In a few hours I have a bit spare time (when jet-lag lets me, returned from China to Europe today) and will try it, also prepare patch names.

Thanks for your help, but am I the only one, who finds the A4 sound (at least the presets) a bit rude and unpleasant ? Un-soundful ? I try to grip it by the word “steamy”, but maybe it’s something else ?

Thanks,
R

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#5

Certainly some reverb on those, which has a low and high pass filter that doesn’t get enough use IMO.

#6

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with the A4’s sound.

Some of the clips you posted were highly, highly compressed; no synth sounds good under such duress.
The MKII clip by Cenk uses noise and FM type sounds.

Sounds like you just have to explore the machine for yourself to see if it can do what you want. It’s my favorite thing in the world, but it’s not for everyone.

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#7

I encounter noise when using reverb to max level + full reverb filter spectrum on a sound that has a lot of bass.

You’ll find it on one of my tracks, 40rds (see my profile, I’m in a rush) at 3:00 more or less, when it gets down a bit…
Reverb needs some taming, I found.

#8

Thanks, maybe I just need more time to explore and understand (A4 is so vast in possibilities). I’ll drop a note here when I understand what bugged me.

Meanwhile I will start with low reverb/white-noise/OVR until I can handle it.

Thanks for your time,
R

#9

Here is the track, at 4:13 saturation wasn’t wanted…
But I kind of like it now.
Still, needs to be tamed.
Do you feel like it could be what you were talking about ?

#10

Hi,

thanks for advising. What conflicts with my ears is less subtle and more general, I hear it in about every second preset (factory or sound pack). Probably I just cannot express or understand what it is.

I noticed that the following helped to transform the presets into a form I liked more:

  • remove white noise (where present)
  • bypass second filter
  • remove detune from the OSCs (I’m aware of removing thickness as well by doing this)

OVR was no issue, white noise also not so much, bypassing the second filter and removing disharmonic detunes helped the most.

I also replaced the internal OSC (or two) by a OSC (or two) of my minitaur out of curiosity. Very interesting difference, the A4 OSCs seemed more rich and the moog OSCs more smooth to my ears. (Difficult to compare because detune can never be the same).

Gut feeling: maybe less is more on the A4 for my taste and I need to ignore the presets and start with only a few of its modules (features) to create my own style.

Thanks and best regards,
R

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#12

One thing for sure: you have to ignore A4 presets.
Once you fully understand how to craft your sounds you can reverse engineer presets perf macros, for instance, and further develop your own synthesis skills with these discoveries…
Take your time :wink:

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#13

Thanks for your guidance. I decided to proceed with an easier device, as long as I’m still so noobish.

Yesterday evening I put my A4 on ebay, and I will try a Virus instead. (Swapping A4 with a used one keeps this in my limited budget :). I’m aware that the Virus - unlike the A4 - could be replaced by cost effective software plugins, however …

In a few years, when I’m more experienced, I might get back to the A4.

Thanks, and happy producing. Great gear from Elektron. Sorry for my impatience, A4 would have deserved more of my attention off course.

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#14

As someone who owns both a Virus and an A4, they can both be replaced by cost effective software plugins, but then you lose standalone capability.

#16

Cancel all A4 presets, start carving your sounds from scratch and take your time. In this forum there are plenty of amazing threads, full of useful tricks that help you to learn the machine. I did it, and now I’m in a ‘A4 heaven’!!! This instrument is absolutely huge!

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#17

Just to let you know the Virus is a much deeper and more powerful synthesis machine than the A4, particularly the TI range with wavetables etc.
The Virus interface is much more intuitive though, and therefor easier to operate than the A4.
The Virus TI still to this day is a beast, and can create literally any sound.
Whether it is as ‘steamy’ I’m not so sure :thinking:

#18

I totally haven’t got an A4, nor have I ever used one, but am I right, did I read, that none of the oscillators can be a sine? If I am right, maybe that is why it sounds steamy? ^^

#19

No, sine oscillators are very uncommon on analogue subtractive synths (for obvious reasons) and in any case are hard to implement

The A4 has a flexible Triangle which is easily filtered to mostly leave the fundamental freq (like a sine) … it also shape shifts into a better saw than the actual saw imho

The dominant issue with the A4 (and the prime difference to the Mk2) is the ladder filter - it’s not quite transparent enough for some folk at default settings - it does have its own flavour for sure and needs a bit of care in use although the second filter can work wonders on the overall sound

steamy wouldn’t be the term i’d go for but it has an emphasis which imparts a buzziness I suppose, especially with a bit of noise

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#20

That was an awesome answer and I feel smarter now! Thanks :smiley:

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#21

Although I don’t understand this :frowning: Why are sine oscillators hard on analogue subtractive synths? Can’t a circuit be convinced to produce a sine curve? Or is it the fact that it’s subtractive?

(Feel free to rtfm me!)

—
tengig, subtractive synth noob

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#22

this … it’s impossible to subtract harmonics from a single fundamental frequency (no harmonics) - subtractive synthesis needs interesting/rich oscillators - filtering (low resonance) a sine wave only reduces the level, not the timbre

iirc, pure analogue sine oscillators are a bit more difficult to produce too … whereas a square is super easy

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