Ah yeah, I thought I noticed that in your video. You will not get sound out of the channel you are sending to the side chain using the channel insert. It’s how they function, not an issue.
Your pulling the cables out partially allows something to happen where the signal gets through both, but if used properly you will in no instance hear the sound from that channel, because the side chain input is not sending the signal back to the mixer. You need to use an auxillary send to both hear the channel and send it to the side chain. I’m pretty sure you did that and it worked in your video, but I think I saw you mentioned those are already being used in your setup. Unfortunately, that’s what you need to get what you’re trying to achieve, though I’d be glad to be wrong.
… but… but… isn’t that what the send/return connections on the inserts should solve? It looks like both mixer and RNC should allow to send out of the insert point on the mixer (tip), into the insert of the RNC (tip, for both the IN and the SIDECHAIN)… then out of the other connection on the RNC (ring) and back to the insert point on the mixer (ring). Hence my saying earlier that TRS->TRS should “just work”.
I mean… maybe I’ve misunderstood how inserts work…?
Hmm… yeah, hang on… I think I have misunderstood compressor side chains.
The compressor sidechain starts with “out”, doesn’t it? It sends a copy of the signal from the main input out of the insert point, through something to filter the signal (e.g. a channel strip, an eq, a filter) then back into the insert. So if you’re using the kick as a key, you can ignore the “out” of the sidechain…
And also, the RNC is not wired wrong. My head was wired wrong.
Sorry for being dense. @LaughingAnimal’s right… you’ll lose the kick if you use the insert on the mixer. Use an Aux
You can use a TRS cable on a mixer insert using the normal audio inputs on the FMR and will get audio back because the ring and tip are operating as the audio input + output.
In the case of the side chain jack, the output should be what’s getting sent through the audio inputs, and the return is what triggers the compression. You can use, for instance, a high pass filter or EQ in the side chain and it will take the audio input, pass it through the filter/eq, then send that back to the side chain to trigger the compression. Adding a 100hz high pass filter would mean only audio above 100hz triggers the compressor.
I’m not as clear on how to describe using an audio signal to trigger ducking, but in that case the side chain should only be receiving a signal. The sidechain output would in theory still mirror the audio inputs, and maybe that does happen and creates a feedback loop which results in what’s being seen by @8bitBarry. I definitely don’t have a complete understanding of what’s going on, but would not expect the FMR sidechain to output the mixer channel insert signal being sent to it, as it doesn’t do that in any case.
The best way to think of this is that the RNC’s inputs are wired up as effect destinations. The sidechain port is wired up as an insert.
That is, the inserts on your desk are made to go out to an effect and get back a processed signal. The RNC inputs are made to be that kind of effect that lives on the other side of an such an insert. The desk sends out signal to them to be compressed, and gets back the compressed signal.
The sidechain on the RNC works just like an insert on your desk. It’s meant to go out to an effect. It sends the input signal (that would normally be used to trigger the compressor) and gets back some processed from of that signal (say, a high-passed version) that will be used to trigger compression instead.
Note that for ducking, we don’t care about processing our signal. We want to substitute a different signal all together. So the “send” part of the sidechain insert isn’t really important and can be ignored.
How do we ignore it? On my RNC I have a breakout adapter plugged into the sidechain with my kicks going in to the red (ring) half and the black (tip) half sitting empty.
Thanks for sharing this link.
Will indeed read through it.
I believe I understand the balanced/unbalanced aspect but when it gets to other territories (like inserting), it is a different story.
It has been working for me as Master insert on my MIDAS Venice as well as end of my audio chain (as it is set up at the moment).
I suppose I will have been lucky using the appropriate cables.
All I want to know is what lead I need to solder up so I can stop all these half pulled jacks, a lead that sends the channel via an insert to the FMR side chain input that doesn’t do weird stuff!
The trouble with “All I want to know…” is that it’s never all one wants to know You’re going to have to understand the whole system, because if you don’t “weird stuff” is the result.
The answer to your question, I think, is "No amount of soldering will help you.” You’re plugging something into an insert that’s providing no return. That will silence your channel, which is not what you want.
So let’s say on your R16 you’ve got your kick on Channel 1. Channel 1 has an insert between the input and the rest of the channel. That insert is meant to be a round-trip out to an effect and back — that is, it sends out a signal to be effected, and then takes the signal it gets back and uses that as the input to the rest of the channel. Because nothing comes back, silence goes into the rest of channel and ultimately silence comes out. Thus the kicks goes silent as soon as you plug into that insert.
To do duck, you don’t want a round-trip. You want to split your kick signal, sending one copy one-way to the sidechain and the other out of the channel so you can still hear it in your mix. That’s what an aux (sometimes called a “send”) is for. It will split the channel’s signal and send it (at some adjustable level) out a different output.
So, get a breakout adapter. Plug it into the sidechain port of the RNC. Then run a cable (TS or TRS, doesn’t matter) from the AUX 1 on the back of your R16 to the red/ring plug on the adaptor. Then find the AUX1 pot on channel 1 of the R16, and turn it up. You are now sending just your kicks to the sidechain of the RNC at whatever level that AUX1 pot is set at, but can still hear them in the master mix of the R16.
You’re going to have to understand the whole system, because if you don’t “weird stuff” is the result.