Old thread, but I’m really surprised someone (CIOKS, Truetone, Walrus) hasn’t built a power block to do this yet.
Right!? I thought the same thing. Seems like this should exist.
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No way. I was searching for something similar for years and there’s absolutely nothing which comes close.
Fucking love it! This is the way how great products come to life. It kinda feels like the MyVolts folks don’t try to solve a real problem they have.
My two cents about your specs from a live artist perspective:
Definitely make it more but maybe 8 is too much. I’d consider my set rather big and I need 6.
Funky 5.8V 2A for the TR-8S. Freely adjustable voltage between 5 and 20V would absolutely kill it.
This sounds futuristic AF but at the same time I think it could be over-engineered and not too practical. If the design of my live set changes, I’d have no problem with whatever it takes to change a voltage. The situation I’m scared of is being in the field and Murphy’s law strikes. I have to urgently change a piece of gear for some reason. My laptop is in the hotel and this darn BLE on my new phone just refuses to pair. A failsafe on-device way to change the voltage of a port eliminate a lot of potential error sources.
I think in this case, a (dual color?) LED close to each output, a segment display and a push encoder could be a sufficient interface.
But make sure it’s not in the way when mounting the device which brings me to my next point: make it mountable. This would help artists like me who have pre-wired setups.
How hard would it be to add an AC option? There are some pedals or older weird gear (like my beloved MB-33 hehe) which needs that.
PowerCon is great, I use the Temple Audio module to connect my board to the mains. I tried IEC first but it was kinda flaky sometimes in the way it’s exposed.
Same here, it’s the 16th for me. What do you want for dat prototype? 
I’m not sure how you’d implement this without turning the power supply into a device killer (because it is too hard to precisely set output voltage, and once set it’s too hard to remember which port was set to what).
This can be mitigated with some careful UI decisions which @amcjen already considered here + some kind of digital menu for configuration which asks the user for confirmation.
But of course, there’s a remaining risk, especially for users who have to wire their stuff a lot. The most fail-proof way for that would be labels on the device-end of the cable and some custom ports on the PSU heavily inspired by this:
No way. I was searching for something similar for years and there’s absolutely nothing which comes close.
I thought this might be the case. I knew there’s no way I’m the only one who wants something like this.
Fucking love it! This is the way how great products come to life.
Definitely make it more but maybe 8 is too much. I’d consider my set rather big and I need 6.
Good to know. You don’t think you’d ever need more later, even for things like pedals, interfaces, SP-404s or in-ear monitors? Just checking, because 8 is the current plan, but it does increase the cost a bit.
I’m currently at 4 for my live rig, but I know a few more pedals would get me over 6. Just want to confirm.
This sounds futuristic AF but at the same time I think it could be over-engineered and not too practical.
For sure–totally valid point. The funny thing is that a USB/BLE solution for the interface is actually easier/cheaper than a display with buttons. However, your point stands–in the heat of the moment, the last thing you want is to be futzing with connection issues. I think a screen/button is doable, but this is squarely getting into the boutique space now–which might be okay.
Rarely do we get the chance to design products exactly how we need them to be in real life, as a performing musician. So I really want to get as much feedback as possible to think through the major scenarios.
I’m hesitant about a rotary push encoder because these may also find themselves on pedalboards and I’m mindful of ruggedness. A plastic-protected screen and buttons–though not as sexy as a rotary encoder, should solve the issue of programming w/o any computers/phones, and still be okay being shuffled around on a stage floor night after night.
make it mountable. This would help artists like me who have pre-wired setups.
Interesting. Tell me more. I’m the dual-lock queen–I use it on everything. But curious what you’re thinking here. Like offset screw holes like you see on the back of some power strips? Or like hooks you could wrap zip-ties through?
How hard would it be to add an AC option? There are some pedals or older weird gear (like my beloved MB-33 hehe) which needs that.
This gets tough, mainly because in every case but the IEC-mains powered version talked about above, you’re basically working with 20V or less. To boost that up to 120V (or more if you have an international product) makes it much larger and more ungainely.
Probably the best solution for something like that is to use a Goal Zero AC100 power bank to power it, and then charge the power bank from this device’s USB-C out. It’s another device, but should work I believe.
PowerCon is great, I use the Temple Audio module to connect my board to the mains. I tried IEC first but it was kinda flaky sometimes in the way it’s exposed.
Same, I love it. The Temple Audio stuff is top-tier. I really like their stuff. (maybe that’s the mounting method you were referring to earlier?)
What do you want for dat prototype?
Haha! I thought I was close, but this discussion thread has me rethinking some things. I definitely want to avoid over-engineering it, but I also want it to cover a pretty large unserved area of the market, and these chats really help drill down to what’s explicitly needed.
The way it’s shaping up now, I see a potential three versions of this thing. A basic one, where you bring your own USB C wall wart and get 6-8 programmable power ports. A mains-powered one where you plug it into the wall (100-240V international), and you get 8 programmable power ports and a USB C out for powering a laptop/tablet. And perhaps a battery-powered one where it’s like the mains one, but runs everything off of a sizeable battery.
The programmable power ports are the killer need here. But how we power it (external brick, mains cable, or battery) actually doesn’t change the design much at all.
Battery one would likely come later unless people would clamor for it right away. I dunno about the need for that as much–I don’t have a strong need for a battery version now personally.
And to answer your question. I’ll have a few prototypes available (min PCB quantity is 5 so may as well make 5). No idea when it’d be ready, but I’d be happy to start a list of who might want to try out the prototypes!
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I’m not sure how you’d implement this without turning the power supply into a device killer (because it is too hard to precisely set output voltage, and once set it’s too hard to remember which port was set to what).
Yes, it’s a concern for sure. But the more I think on it, it really isn’t any different than running a CIOKS is it? You program those with little dip switches, get their polarity-changer cables if you have an opposite polarity device, and then hope you plug everything in correctly, right?
I do think there’s a way to make this pretty bullet-proof, as long as you’re reasonably sober and well-slept, thinking through color-coded channels and labeled or color-coded cables.
I also think it’d be pretty killer to have an ongoing power profile library that’s part of the device that lets you just pick your device from a drop-down. If they’re the official profiles from the device, then you can be reasonably sure it’s correct. Like, instead of choosing “12V, 1A, center-positive polarity”, you choose “Elektron Digitakt MkI”. You could of course make your own profiles if you wanted, but this should also put to rest any second-guessing people might have.
I also think that dip switches and color coded LED for different voltages (6/9/12/18) are the simplest way to go. That way it is obvious what is happening.
For polarity maybe its the most fool-proof way to have just standard polarity, and use polarity inverter cables.
I doubt that such a device is useful for people who are unaware what power their devices need. A power profile library might open you up for liability if anything goes wrong.
Also Software adds a layer of complexity that might have an impact on the sustainability of the project. 12V center negative are 12V center negative, no matter what. But 57 new devices each year will have to be added to the software for the PSU to remain usable for people who can’t figure out the voltage and polarity of their newest gadget.
NVM make it 8. It’s better to have a spare than to run out of slots. We shouldn’t assume too much things about other setups. With 8 it will also get more attractive for the classic guitar/bass pedal board use case which is a way bigger market.
Yes I see your point. What I’m also worried about is the software aspect. For the manufacturer it might be an ever increasing cost factor for development, maintenance or even the $100 annual fee for the Apple developer account. For the consumer it means that the functionality and usability of the product depends on the software which could dampen the interest. (Basically sustainability concerns as @Lizard-of-Oz wrote while I was writing this post haha)
But in the end I think this is super crucial. The common customer response I experienced on the MyVolts alchemist was: “great product but dang, thats expensive for ‘just’ a PSU”. The price must appear reasonable.
Many modern effects have encoders as well. Or think of all the PA speakers/subs with a display/encoder combo on the back. I don’t think that sufficient ruggedness can’t be achieved with encoders but of course, buttons will perform better.
As you’ve guessed it below, I’m team Temple Audio. The plain and simple fact that their boards have holes makes mounting all kinda stuff a dream. But many pro board builders will just drill mounting holes into their boards anyway. My suggestion would be 4-6 M3 thread holes with some variation in spacing. Zip ties would work anyway by just wrapping the whole thing.
Kinda OT about dual-lock
Before I discovered Temple Audio I was using dual-lock and sometimes velcro. But It was always a hassle to use. Having just enough dual-lock to hold things in place but still have the option to unmount a device without rough violence wasn’t easy. I don’t like the Temple Audio plate system too much but it’s still a more consistent experience for me than dual-lock.
In the future maybe Temple Audio would be interested in a collaboration like they did with CIOKS where they fitted the whole PSU into a “mod module”.
Even if only 12v AC are needed? I wasn’t talking about a general AC outlet.
I’d be careful with variations, especially at the launch phase I’d focus on one product. Personal choice would be the wall plug variant because it’s fully self-contained. The battery will also make certification and shipping more complex. Maybe leave an “add-on port” for a future battery pack or USB-C power option? (I’d be very up to have a fully battery powered rig. Maybe it could also act as an “UPS”?)
Powercon considerations
In my case I’d be actually fine with IEC because I’d still use the Temple Audio PowerCon mod which has an IEC connector on the other side. Despite that: as beautiful the PowerCon is, I suppose that most people won’t have such a cable around. This can be a big deal when one forgets or loses their cable. It’s likely to pull out an IEC cable somewhere. But getting a PowerCon isn’t always easy.
This would be actually very important for me as my setup is based on an iPad as central mixer and effect unit. But I see a very general use-case for people to run all kind of USB gear or just add another port with a PD converter cable.
Yes. To say it like Spiderman: with great power supply comes great responsibility.
I’m with @Lizard-of-Oz. Maintaining such a library is a lot of work and people will blame you if something goes wrong. To do this responsibly you’d have to test it with the actual device. Nothing wrong with user-defined presets and maybe some kinda community library. But nothing more.
All good feedback. I appreciate both yours and @Lizard-of-Oz’s suggestions.
Regarding the software, I think it’d be fine to make it totally optional–and should be able to use the device completely standalone. That should solve the issue for everyone, and in every situation I can think of.
And yeah, I can’t speak to the MyVolts alchemist, other than it’s clear they see a need in this space as well, and I like supporting other small companies making novel products. But some of those prices were eye-watering at first glance.
As you’ve guessed it below, I’m team Temple Audio.
I think this would’ve been my first choice as live rig setup if I didn’t rely so heavily on a laptop as part of my set. I couldn’t find a way that keeps it safe and still mobile, along with all the devices. That said, making this device the right size for one of their mod-modules would be pretty slick.
I’d love to get the dimensions of their module, if you’re able to get it off your board–I couldn’t find any after a quick search.
Even if only 12v AC are needed? I wasn’t talking about a general AC outlet.
Ah, gotcha. I’ve never seen a low-voltage AC setup like this. Unfortunately the AC part is what makes it hard here. The entire system is set up as a variable DC/DC power channels–so making anything a step-down AC converter would probably not be possible with this setup unfortunately.
I’d be careful with variations, especially at the launch phase I’d focus on one product.
For sure, I agree that one product for launch only. For me, it’s helpful to think ahead for possible variations on the product, as that can inform how the current product is designed, to minimize impact for future expansion. And this is super easy to make battery-powered if you just get a USB C power bank. Problem solved for battery needs.
I’m with @Lizard-of-Oz. Maintaining such a library is a lot of work and people will blame you if something goes wrong.
Fair enough. I suppose it all comes down to what method people trust the most. Helpful feedback nonetheless!
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I backed two Silent Alchemists to have a spare unit and to help the project. But their product management is very unfortunate to say at least.
That’s a pity. Maybe I’ll have a deep dive into whether the MB33 could be modded to take DC instead. Internally it’s using 5/12V DC anyway.
Maybe you could use a general purpose platform like patchstorage.com to manage the presets to decouple it a bit.
That’s a pity. Maybe I’ll have a deep dive into whether the MB33 could be modded to take DC instead. Internally it’s using 5/12V DC anyway.
Found their schematics here, and looks like it uses -12/+12 and +5 internally, much like Eurorack stuff. In short, yeah I think it could be modded, but would need an inverting power supply circuit. Inexpensive and fairly simple, but would require little PCB circuit to be made.
Good news about this, is if you did mod it, then 12V in could source the -12V with the inverter, the 5V with a buck converter, and ofc the original +12V. And, this power supply device we’re discussing could power it all since it can source several amps per channel. (Current limit is 5A per channel, primarily because that’s what the barrel jack connectors are rated at. Internally, they can source up to 8A!)
As an aside, I redid a PSU for my beloved KSP8 FX box. It was old and starting to reset randomly. I sourced medical grade power supply units, which are almost certainly overkill for this use, but they were quick to use, dead quiet, and run cool. Meant I could ditch the fan on it as well. They also have like a 70 year mean time between failure rate.
Open sourced it in case there are any other KSP8 parents out there!
Maybe you could use a general purpose platform like patchstorage.com to manage the presets to decouple it a bit.
That’s a great idea.
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I used https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0B6MZYKTF?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title
USBC 1 > Birdcord > Polatity Changer > Behringer Audio Interface
USBC 2 > Birdcord > 2x Splitter > Digitakt and Digitone
USBC 3 > USB Hub > iPAD
A note on this stuff. UGreen have detailed configuration images on what port combinations give out which watts. So for 12v1Amp it’s 12Watts. 12v2amp (Syntakt) would need 24Watts. All chargers and Power Banks have these limitations, UGreen display it in the nicest way.
Which port you plug each of your synths in is important.
Birdcords can draw a max of 12v3amp each (36watts)
My iPad (Air 5) needs 20Watts.
The other thing to note is that Power Deliver (PD) doesn’t have a 12v native option, however, if you make sure it is PD3.0 with PPS then the PPS spec allows the chip requesting the power to request any ‘off spec’ voltages it needs (within the limit of the available Watts)
Research your gear, find out what it needs and if the powerbank and/or plug can support your rig
Another option I could have gone with was a 12v distribution block used for bikes 4 Way Fuse Block 12V 20A Waterproof Fuse Relay Box Kit with LED Indicator Professional Automotive Fuse Box Holder Panel with 5A 3A 2A Fuses for Automotive Car Boat Marine Trike : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive
I decided on the birdcords as it was easier to use powebanks if I wanted to change the UGreen out
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This is an interesting solution, thanks for sharing! The multi USB-C port like the UGreen seem to be getting closest-ish to the ideal–though you still have to get your Birdcords and polarity changers all lined up.
A note on this stuff. UGreen have detailed configuration images on what port combinations give out which watts. So for 12v1Amp it’s 12Watts. 12v2amp (Syntakt) would need 24Watts. All chargers and Power Banks have these limitations, UGreen display it in the nicest way.
Indeed. Building custom power solutions definitely requires some knowledge of your current and voltage (and by extension, wattage). This does look nice.
I’m assuming these are photos are printed on the side of the box or in the manual or something, and not part of a digital interface it offers?
The other thing to note is that Power Deliver (PD) doesn’t have a 12v native option, however, if you make sure it is PD3.0 with PPS then the PPS spec allows the chip requesting the power to request any ‘off spec’ voltages it needs (within the limit of the available Watts)
Indeed, this is good to note. My spec’ed USB PD controller is PD 3.1 ready, so it supports PPS (and even liquid detection, among other things). So anything plugged into the USB C port can request its custom voltage.
But that still leaves the need to control custom voltages for the barrel-jack connected devices like the Elektrons, the Roland Arias (with their 5.6V), and the like.
Do the Birdcords let you choose custom voltages?
On the USB Port outputs, that image is from the UGreen webpage for the product. Anker have the specs for each combination of ports in written form on their official product page also.
If you need standard voltages, such as 12v, 9v, or 5v you can get PD Trigger Board’s off ebay/amazon quite cheaply. These will take a PD USBC cable in and output the voltage you select. Solder on a Barrel Jack and done. It would also be possible to go from one the PD Trigger Boards into a distribution block or rail and go into several synths if they share the same voltage and their total amps don’t exceed the spec of the board (I wouldn’t go above 3amps)
There is 1 PPS trigger board on the market with a variable pot, so you could ‘tune’ it to the exact output voltage you need. They do seem harder to get ahold of, and more expensive. USB-C PD and PPS Trigger with Potentiometer by CentyLab
Another option would be to use a simple PD Trigger at a higher voltage (say 9volts) then run that through a cheap Buck Converter to take that voltage down from the 9 to 5.6v
PD Trigger Board
Into
Buck Converter
Here’s another option. Untested by me. A 12V UPS, so it has battery inbuilt as well and 4 12v1a outputs
An older thread on the subject here Diy power distribution board - #7 by Airyck
An older thread on the subject here…
The conclusion in this thread from one of the commenters is what I ended up landing on too–that on the surface it looks simple enough, but when you start dealing with hundreds of watts, and each device pulling its own current spikes (with the subsequent voltage drops), things can get… interesting.
I’m pretty sure I have a good idea of how to approach this project for potential release to a larger group besides myself. I’m neck-deep in v2 of the schematic design. It’ll support variable voltage per channel (in 20mA increments), current-limiting per channel, and programmable polarity switching per channel.
While this might seem overkill in areas–when you can simply use a polarity-inverted cable, I’m beyond a hodgepodge setup for powering multiple devices well. I want something exceptionally stable and solid, professionally built, and ready for touring night-after-night using power supply mains from all over the world (and all different stages). I’m ready to put this power supply issue to bed once and for all.
Gotta do a bit of brainstorming with others at my design firm, and once done, we’ll post a crowdfunding pre-launch page to give a lot more info.
I really, really appreciate everyone’s feedback on this. It’s helped change up significant aspects of the design. And to me, that might be the best part about this project–that several features came from you all.
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Is it at all possible to integrate a usb hub to facilitate holy grail of data and isolated power over one cable?
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Is it at all possible to integrate a usb hub to facilitate holy grail of data and isolated power over one cable?
Unfortunately I think that would push it outside of the maximum price-point and physical size. There are some pretty affordable options that will pass USB PD power through from a supply like the one discussed here to a computer/tablet, while giving you the additional expansion necessary.
Also because some people will need more or less types of ports (HDMI? USB C displayport? USB 2 only? etc), it would be really hard to make the ideal choice of ports.
But this power supply will definitely power a USB hub and computer like the one linked above!
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Please do, this has been an interesting thread to follow. There’s a gap in the market for this I think, especially if you can make it more affordable than the current offerings (at least in relation to the huge upfront cost of adopting the MyVolts ecosystem).
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