So where are the songboxes?? 
Damn, all those houseplants and succulents are really starting to get involved in the process these days.
Well, they are all photosynthesists after all.
Cheers!
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one more theory.
vast majority of modern music is either one-loop techno or just some textures over some beat.
so very few people need such anachronism as song mode these days.
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Evidently though, lots of people do need it. It’s one of the most requested features in the domain of grooveboxes and sequencers.
I also don’t think that arranging songs is an old-fashioned ideal. I’d be more tempted to blame the low bar of entry, and the satiety that comes with making even the simplest of loops.
I think there are a lot of people who enjoy the indulgence of making music at the most basic level (as they should), but don’t otherwise aspire to be musicians per se.
As for grooveboxes in general… Loops are a fundamental part of all music, and a groovebox is just another tool in the shed, if only to help flesh-out ideas.
But it’s not there to do the heavy lifting for you.
Cheers!
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In a world where we have an acronym for excessive pining for whatever gear one doesn’t have I’m not sure if “requests” can really be offered as unproblematic evidence of need 
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Touché.
Cheers!
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Yeah, even if I can have different loops for verse, intro, a, b,… I can’t do changes that are going over those.
If I want an evolving sound with parameter changes, I can lock those to 16…and then it repeats. There is only so much LFOs can do. (And having something evolve over the course of an arrangement becomes hard)
That’s probably why I’m looking into a solution where I can lay down the basics (patterns) on the instruments,perform, record the audio, and continue working with it.
And while there would be some options (mpc), none of those are “portable” in my book. If they take up almost a whole backpack and cost a ton, then I might as well take a 800€ 13" notebook and a push 2 for 400€.
On the other hand, sitting on the pc for work all the time makes it so that I really don’t want to touch it for my music making.
To me it seems that op-z sequencer and op-1f tape workflow in an not overpriced package portable with battery would be it for me, but the closest I can find is a rather chunky octatrack.
dont have much to add, but I appreciate this conversation. both sides . i also fall on the side of wanting to get as far as i can before importing to a daw. ideally, that is finishing an entire song with a rough mix, and only using the daw for fine tuning mixing and mastering elements . ive accepted that that is generally not how it goes, however, i will say that M8 has gotten me significantly further thn any other box ive used. the fact that i can make a full meticulously arranged composition, start to finish, and thn export the individual stems and the individual midi files to a daw has become an irreplaceable part of me finishing songs. and starting songs, for that matter.
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Wildly incorrect.
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A great question along with some great replies and followups. One of the best thread I found here.
My take is, keep your hardwares and go hybird. Grab an iPad and try out some “FULLY CONFIGURABLE” production/performance apps that don’t look/work like a traditional DAW.
Outsource the mission impossible to software and that will free your mind and save your soul/time/money.
Highly recommended Loopy Pro on iOS
Go here to hear some software based opinion. It won’t hurt
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They figure if you want to finish songs, you’d use a DAW
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That is.
Groovebox = Fun
DAW = Fun (and/or work)
Not necesarily a “daw”. Just pace of software devlopment is way ahead of hardware.
And most so called hardwares still using chips in their microwave. The state the art chips all reserved for Smart devices, game consoles and EV, etc.
I think the m8 and octatrack and op1 each come close ish in their own right, but yeah loopy pro (which I know and like) is the only realistic option for non daw clip collection and arrangement.
I’m amazed nobody has made a small box that focuses on clip collection and arrangement. It’s such a simple common task.
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High end hardware brands will never try. We all know what’s the result will be.(being K.O. by iPad at the same cost) They will keep pumping out one after one niche products.
On the other hand, some low end brands are extremely well designed like Sonicware Liven series that offers tons of fun. I own their 8bit warp and that’s the only standalone hardware I own.
Edit: Just awared u are the OP. U should check out 8bit warps, their single 128 step sequencer with 4 loopers tracks is a very special approach for building songs.
Edit 2: This is like asking why Nokia doesn’t try some hardware replacement of some popular mobile apps. Which is just impossible.
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A fair few people seem to like the Blackbox for that
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The OXI One is bringing a decent sequencer to many of my grooveboxes.
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My MPC 4k has a great workflow for working through full length songs. Ive come around to the MPC way of doing things, the S2400 isnt far off. The MPC wins as you can edit you sequences in detail and navigate quickly through large sequences. The newer MPCs focus on touch screens I think distracts away from a really good, tried ans teated, workflow from the legacy line. That being said, the editing on the touch screen is still highly useful if not as well as implemented as it could be.
Gone through heaps of groove boxes and keep coming back to MPCs.
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I am so used to writing full tracks easier on my Virus in multi-timbral mode using Hapax sequencer or in modular using Eloquencer to program up to 8 tracks visible at once. Makes life easier to lay out bass, drums, effects, pads and other stuff on one screen and record out to Ableton. I like to keep my workflow similar to the piano roll of a DAW that I am used to. MPC Live has that part right.
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