In recent years I have been constantly working towards the perfect music making setup for me with my beloved Digitone always accompanying me. I went from DAW to Digitone standalone to DAWless and finally to hybrid - and I’m still thinking about ways to further improve to get closer to my musical vision. Here’s a video on what I’ve learned from that, hoping you can take something away from it as well.
How does your optimal music making setup look like?
I’m personally working with a hybrid setup, utilising Push 3 as the main hub. I work a lot with send and return to various pedals, and still haven’t found the perfect solution to route my channels to the send and returns, in a way that is easily readable, meaning I could just glance over to a mixer and see what’s being sent to what. Like one can do one a DJ mixer for instance. Currently I have tvo EC4s for doing send and returns, but it’s not optimal.
Ok so this was just some flow of thought… but I guess what I’m getting at, is how are you working with send and returns? Are they just sent and forget or are you changing them on the fly? I just haven’t been able to get comfortable with the way one controls the sends on the push.
My dream setup would be the push 3 for launching clips, and controlling some plugin parameters mapped to macros. And then a dedicated hybrid mixer with real send knobs for every channel and every send. Preferably more than 2 send channels.
To your question: Currently I do both, meaning I use the returns for “static” FX to be just applied to multiple sounds as well as for performance FX for my live performances. I’ve build a complete FX rack on my master chain for that using the M4L devices Map8 and MultiMap so I can use the 8 macros on the push to control multiple sends across my instrument groups. Super fun stuff, I’m currently also thinking of doing a video about this setup. Your hybrid dream setup sounds interesting btw! I’ve been thinking of somehting similar, however got back to the point where I try to control as much as I can with Push 3, which I just got.
Just got the Big Six in the mail, hoping that mixer will suit well for controlling 2 send/returns on an easily readable console. And these send/returns can be either outboard gear or VSTs in the box. This mixer really looks promising! Now I understand why people are raving so much about this mixer.
The setup you just described sounds amazing, so you just select the master channel on the Push and you get access to the relevant macros? This is powerful stuff, a video would be super handy.
Oh that sounds lovely, the Big Six really looks like a cool mixer, I’ve been having an eye on it in the past too. Let me know how you like it! And yes, I just have 1 FX Rack with 16 macros on the master channel and each macro controls a different destination in Live (like multiple group sends/single parameters/etc). Really nice, I hope I manage to shoot a video on it soon. Currently really into the Push 3 and making music with it, so this will probably take a little while
What I love about Elektron is how the ecosystem very much supports a hybrid workflow via OB, and the class compliant devices that make it easy to connect to iPad. I have fun with both Dawless jams and uploading to OB for more work in the DAW. I also like DAWs like Bitwig that are designed to encourage hybrid workflows.
The ideology around the DAWless debate is funny to me because everyone has different goals. For some it’s just a fun hobby, form some it’s live jams, for some it’s creating pristine studio tracks. Everyone will have different methods based on their goals.
Great points and I 100% agree. I think in the end it also really comes down to personal preference and like you said personal goals and it is great to have different approaches like DAWless, in the box or hybrid for the same goal. I’m a big fan of exploration and pushing boundaries with gear that you have and make the parts work together to your favour. This way you can create a setup that you love making music with and that you can grow with as a musician.
I solved this dilemma for me by having a hybrid setup that can be used independently of each rather when needed.
No need to choose or belabour any decisions. I can retain my nerdy, uncool DAW ways whilst masking it in an aura of suave Dawless mystique and intrigue.
Hybrid. Create template in Ableton Live or Logic and record stems from my hardware and remix. Sometimes easy to program drums using MIDI notes in Ableton for kick, snare, hi hats and clap then use hardware.
I don’t know if it really does anything that different than Logic or Ableton, but they seem to stress hardware support in their marketing, including modular integration: Hardware Integration | Bitwig
I’ve only really used Digitakt with it via OB, and it was a pretty seamless experience.
Hybrid for me too. Having been itb for years, I didn’t want to lose all the computer goodies I was used to, when I started playing more hardware. The problem was, I couldn’t stand the idea of a hybrid system that wasn’t perfectly synced with the hardware at all times, allowing for it to all be one big cohesive organism. So that sent me down the sync and latency rabbit hole, which I was eventually able to solve with an E-RM multiclock and a somewhat complicated (but stable) ableton template. I also had a few must-haves:
All instruments available all the time, no rewiring.
Hardware and computer must always be in sync in real time, and additional plug in or processing latency must not disrupt the sync.
MIDI to/from everything, latency compensated to the maximum possible extent.
Multitrack recording of all instruments.
Ability to patch in pedals/fx easily.
No mixer
Ability to use the rig with no computer.
A full rack width RME interface, patchbay, iconnect device for midi processing, and the multiclock solved all of the above. It’s great - now there’s pretty much no weird routing idea I can’t implement in just a few seconds, and it’s dead easy to swap out gear and try different combos. Plus, it’s all pretty compact and organized (I love mixers, but also love not having one anymore).
Amazing this is exactly what I’m aiming for. Writing on my phone ATM but will reply more at the computer later. In the meantime, you don’t happen to have a picture of your setup?
I‘m using a hybrid setup with Bitwig 5.1 as my DAW, meanwhile 12 Hardware-Devices (including Digitakt and Digitone over Overbridge) with a Presonus StudioLive 16.0.2 USB as Audiointerface and Mixer and this Setup works like a Breeze. On my 2018 Intel-Mac Mini I have very low round-trip latency with this setup. I came from Logic to Studio One and will stay now with Bitwig. Great Setup for my purposes… as I‘m only playing in my homestudio
Cool video! When I started shifting towards hardware from producing 100% ITB, because I missed the performance aspect, hybrid seemed like best of both worlds - flexibility and power of a DAW+plugins with live performance capabilities of hardware.
And it was, but I found out, it’s also worst of both worlds - potential instability of software, USB issues, latency issues, complicated project recall, complicated software routing of audio and midi, midi controller mapping weirdness… and because DAW was the centerpiece, all of this bothered me even more, being used to simplicity of using plugins and projects in same environment.
Then I replaced computer with iPad, to use it as a synth(s) and FX processor, and I initially liked it, because it kind of felt more like a piece of hardware. But then I found out that some apps have no midi sync, others have no midi mapping, I needed dongles, usb hubs, interfaces, I had power issues, various iOS limitations and errors when connecting all gear together and once it even caused my DT to freeze.
So now I’m dawless for live and only use computer for recording and mixing (and potentially arranging/producing whole song) and iPad as a sound source for sampling (but thinking of trying it for end of chain mastering). My setup is still too large (but getting smaller) and missing some features, but works nicely and limitations really do spark creativity - it’s certainly more flexible in practice than sum of it’s parts.
Still, if you manage to make hybrid work for you, it is the best way.
Decided to downsize my setup and leaned towards hybrid, but still trying to figure it out
Using Ableton Live to try and take advantage of max devices, a OT, and a Digitone:
-Using a ZenQ to route 2 sets of outs to my OT using Ez’s Ultimate FX Template which is routed back in.
-Using the 8 OT midi tracks to control my Drumrack, other Ableton Synths, and multiple Simplers…which I know is ironic.
-Digitone routed through OB and have the Elektron Pattern Clips Device to control my Digitone and OT’s BPM/patten changes.
It’s still a work in progress but it’s nice to have everything in front of me and not needing to swivel my chair around to tweek knobs.
Thanks for sharing your journey! Your experience match with mine, however I never really had big issues with my hybrid set apart from latency which was a pain to set up. But now that everything is set it just works plug and play. Played a couple of shows with it now and never had any problems. I’m also trying to simplify my setup and the next step would probably be to get rid of the MacBook and perform on Push 3 Standalone + synths. Let’s see.
I recently set things up in a way that is optionally hybrid that I’m quite pleased with. If I want to use a computer or midi keyboard I turn them on but they are not necessary. Notably my hardware and computer are on different desks.
