Groovebox recommendation for an Ableton user

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I’ve been exploring the groovebox world for about six months now, and am ready to take the leap and get myself something nice.

I’ve been using Ableton to create mostly either ambient-ish house music or more traditional pop with vocals. I’m very comfortable with the software, but sometimes it does feel like I’m sitting in front of a computer program, and not at an instrument. I thought that maybe groove boxes could be something to help me with this. (For reference, maybe it doesn’t matter, but I can play the guitar, bass, and piano with intermediate-to-advanced proficiency.)

After a decent amount of research, I thought the Novation Circuit was the appropriate entry point. And indeed it was fun to use, pretty easy to learn, but ultimately felt a little like a toy—limited, and the sounds somewhat dinky and flat. Most importantly, exporting to Ableton was a pain—had to audio record each track and then do the drudgery work of lining up all the different tracks. After more research, I opted for the Roland MC-101. It sounds amazing, and exporting to Ableton is pretty easy—but my god, the people who designed this machine did so with hatred in their hearts for its future users. It is torturous. Still, I appreciate it, but man. Not fun.

My goal: I want to find a groove box that is more portable than not (i.e., not a massive console, AC powered is fine), where I can sketch out some ideas that sound great on their own, that’s intuitive to use, even if it has an initial learning curve, which I can then easily export to Ableton and develop into a full track. I’m considering the Digitone, as it seems like it’s what I’m after (more interested in synths over drums). Or the Syntakt? But maybe there’s a machine out there I’m not aware of?

The tl;dr: seeking machine (willing to spend up to $1k) that has amazing sounds, fun to play, is not too big, and can easily export to Ableton to expand to fuller track.

Sorry for long post. Thank you!

Welcome!

I would suggest Syntakt over Digitone for diversity of sounds, but I think you’re on the money with any of the Overbridge capable Elektron devices. They’re fun, they’re refined, they sound great, and they can multitrack to a DAW via USB. I don’t think you’ll find much that’s similar for the price.

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Hey, thanks! I appreciate it. If you don’t mind, why do you think the Syntakt is better than the Digitone? For what I’m looking for, that is. My impression was the the Syntakt was more of a sampler/drum machine with some synth stuff, whereas the Digitone was a straight-forward synth.

It’s personal preference, I just like the sound of the Syntakt better. The Digitone is a digital FM/subtractive synth while the Syntakt is a sort of jack of all trades digital/analogue synth-slash-drum synth. I think you’d get more mileage out of the kinds of sounds you could make with the Syntakt, but of course it just depends on what you like. The Digitone would be a great choice too. Search for the Syntakt and Digitone threads on the forum and you’ll find a bunch of examples of what each of them sound like, as well as owner’s opinions.

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Die Hard Elektron and Ableton fan myself, and you can’t go wrong with any of the three Digi boxes as they’re all great. However for a box with extreme portability which still remains tremendously powerful, I don’t think you can do much better than an M8. The tracker workflow may seem daunting at first, it was for me, but after watching a tutorial video on YT before I even received it, I was off and running almost as soon as I pulled it out the box. There was a couple of stumbles at first, namely understanding the numerical system and how ticks work, but very quickly I became amazed at how fast it is to pump out ideas. The on board synths and sampler aren’t slouches either. It’s really a fantastic device.

POLYPHONY is the key word in Digitone vs rest of Elektron family.

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Just thought I’d point out the Syntakt isn’t a sampler. It doesn’t record or play back samples. Hope that helps

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Any of the “Digi” range (Digitakt, Digitone, Syntakt) will integrate well with Ableton via Overbridge, and all are great entry points into the Elektron world.

I own all three, and I use them standalone, together or integrated with Ableton Live.

If you do decide to go the Elektron route, my personal suggestion would be to start with either a Digitakt or Syntakt, if only because the Digitone is a little more advanced if you intend to use it as a groovebox. Digitone DOES have polyphony, but it has to be managed in terms of how you distribute voices per track, voice stealing settings, and patch flipping to get “full” sounding music out of its four tracks.

Digitakt and Syntakt are more straight-forward with their selectable per-track monophonic machines, plus having 8 and 12 audio tracks respectively.

And depending on what sounds I have in mind, I personally do more of my song-starting with the Syntakt than the Digitakt or Digitone, because of the Syntakt’s focus on synthesis and quick sound design, instead of hunting through and managing samples (Digitakt) or the more nuanced and fiddly FM sound design of the Digitone. Don’t get me wrong, the Digitakt and Digitone are not “hard” in comparison to the Syntakt, it’s just that Syntakt is my personal preference in song starters at the moment.

As always, YMMV.

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It’s not exactly small and portable, but the Push 3 is an amazing companion for Ableton. I have the controller version and I love it. It totally transformed Ableton for me, and there’s no need to transfer any songs, as they’re already in Ableton!

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MPC Live which has Ableton Link included is another option. Battery powered and portable. Can add an internal HDD. Free plugins and optional additional plugins have a lot of bases covered. An OS that continues to be supported and regularly updated with new features.

Throwing thinning as another option to consider.

G

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never got Abelton Link to work properly - MPC worked as plugin in live, that aspect was ok. Any tipps why Link didnt sync ? (Well the link was seen, but it always had 1 bar delay.)

I’ve not used Ableton for years but hopefully there’s someone on here that can help.

G

A warm welcome. I have had a similar experience to you. The Circuit is the ultimate gateway drug to hardware in that it’s a cost effective way to learn what you like. I too found that exporting stuff was a total pain to the point that I wouldn’t do it, and I moved it on.

I think there are 2 things you have to weigh up in your quest - one is portability and the other is fun factor. I’m not 100% sure that you can get both as a 10/10 in one box (except maybe one specific box). But generally as they get bigger they get more jammable - but also less portable, and often with much deeper software. And the portable boxes can be simpler and faster, but due to their size, a bit fiddly. So it’s a compromise. (Some of what I’m saying is from researching and dismissing gear rather than owning it, but hopefully you can use my research to help your own.)

In my case I chose 2 options. Honestly, in a parallel universe I could have picked up the MPC One+ and just plugged that in on the go, but I was concerned about moving it around with the mini headphone jack in the front. I have the Polyend Tracker Mini (which has the same jack as this too, but you hold it like a Kindle, so it’s less of an issue.) I have this purely for total portability. I can take it anywhere and make the core of a song no issues. The workflow is weird in a good way, but it is very much a nice to have on top of my core rig. I also have a Maschine incoming because it’s knock down cheap at the moment, (I wouldn’t pay full price for it since it’s an old device and you never know if NI will continue to support it.) This is to give me a more tactile and hands on workflow to create basic track stems before I head on to work on them in detail in Ableton. Again, this is not strictly needed, but I got a bit of a deal so I thought I’d take the punt.

Like you, I have a desire to make what’s known as downtempo and chill house music, which can 100% be done on a Tracker, but it really benefits from a tactile. What I like the most about the any groovebox is the ability to just bounce stems and import them dry and then process in Ableton directly for more layering and mixing.

Since you refer to the fun factor then the obvious candidates that spring to mind are (in order of price from low to high), Maschine, MPC One+, Digitakt/tone Polyend Play/+, Push 3 and possibly the Deluge. All of these have some similarities to the Circuit whether it be a pad based layout, a pad based sequencer; or just more studio appropriate features than the Circuit which meets your need of easy export of tracks. The trade-offs between them will liekly be around playability and portability.

If you take one of the Polyend or Elektron devices, it feels like the emphasis here is on the underlying workflow of programming beats around a very flexible step sequencer. With Polyend they have a big emphasis on their generative sequencers, with Elektron it’s the flexibility of the sequencer in combination with the performance tools. Then you’ve got the Maschine and MPC which have similarities and differences of their own. Of course with these two the big selling point is mostly the pads and the hands on nature of them. They started out simple, but have gained added features over the years, and users talk a lot about how they help them get ideas down quickly. These boxes are bigger, and with Maschine you are tethered to a computer. MPC One+ is unique in its own way and is maybe the most obvious one here because it is small enough to be portable, but big enough to have some playability to it. It has some nifty Ableton control so when you’re back in the studio you can use it to move around a session and some other basic controls, which is a nice bonus. Push speaks for itself really. There’s also Launchpad Pro, which basically gives you a pinch of the Circuit workflow but in Ableton. However, that does involve having a mouse & keys at all times, but it would be probably the cheapest option of the lot. Deluge I can’t comment on too much other than to say that most people who have it rave about it and it seems like there’s nothing it can’t do if you can stomach the price.

Not sure if that’s useful, but hopefully there’s a nugget or two in there that helps your research.

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My friend really rates his Deluge and he’s been through a lot of gear. It does sampling, good synthesis, is portable and has this open source thing going on.

He says he hardly looks at the screen it’s so well designed.

For portability and fun I’d recommend the op-1 (2nd hand).
Quirky sequencers, but with your musical background you would be sketching songs all over the place. Dead easy to drag into Ableton and lots of ways to record on it.

A few sound artifacts here and there but part of its charm.

Push 1 or 2 is a groovebox. Cheap now.

I think going from a daw to any hardware, you want to think about if you want go continue making music the way you have been, or if you want to open up a new door. Some people use samples and modulate them while some stack a lot of effects.

But to me, it sounds to me like you might be more of a songwriting type. And in case you want to play to your strenghts, I’d recommend things with a lot of polyphony and maybe some form of small scale keyboard.

I used Ableton for a long time before going into hardware, I thought I wanted the opposite of what how I made music but later realised I had spent so many years developing my own technique/path that I dont feel the need to go in new directions, theres still too much to learn and improve upon in my original direction.

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I’ve tried lots of things. I struggled with Elektron boxes (I know that’s heresy on here) other than making 4 bar loops.

I too loved the Circuit, but outgrew it.

Favorite options of mine are:
Polyend Tracker (I’m sure the Play is also excellent)
MC-707 (Like the MC-101, but less horrible to use)
IPad with Drambo (My current main squeeze)

This. Sometimes all that you need is a good midi controller for your DAW. Specially if you like and are very proficient already in your DAW.

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Yeah this is very true. There’s an ebb and flow. I started with Circuit because I could wrap my head around it and skipped the DAW (which I would not recommend.) I was advised here and other places to go with a DAW and that is where I should have started.

But as you say, if you are a writer coming from a stringed instrument, your frame of reference is always real instruments rather than software, and it takes time to tweak your mindset to those differences. That leads me to also say the MPC Key 37 is an interesting development because it’s a do-it-all box, with pads, keys and knobs - so it’s about as hands on as you can get without using a DAW. Ableton Push 2 + Suite + Midi keys would also work. Novation devices that can do key binding should benefit from Live 12 because it looks like can select things with keyboard shortcuts that you couldn’t in 11, which might make that combo pretty formiddable.

But having been fully ITB, while you can of course run tracks from sketch to full production fully in a DAW, I find the mental separation of the two stages quite useful. OP played other instruments, and I can liken this to something like playing in a band where you play a song on an acoustic, then you flesh it out in the rehearsal room, then maybe play it live. You often cycle different equipment for each part. Even the fact that recording sessions with an engineer have a recording bit, then a bit where you sit and listen to it, mix it, edit it etc. I can see how that is not strictly necessary, a luxury even, but also a comforting step by step process for this coming to this form other angles.

NB: even if you do this, you can still use Ableton clips to arrange and perform your audio stems into an arrangement too. It’s an extra step to set up, but it’s possible and could be another interesting combo of the best bits of both worlds.

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Check out the MC-707. There you can see the array of clips in the display. It’s small, but IMO it provides enough of an Ableton-like feeling. Editing of the ZEN-core machine is also much more hands on. IMO it’s portable as well.

Alternatively … what about a MPC live? The MPC software, which is bundled, is also Ableton friendly.

That’s quite a jump to a very specialized machine. That’s FM synthesis only. Great sound, but I wouldn’t compare it to a MC-707 or a MPC.

Great sound, many voices, but no sampling and IMO a little week for polyphonic pads.