Hey all,
I have a friend with a degenerative condition who is looking to make music with a joystick interface - buttons, sliders and pots won’t cut it. Just wondering if anyone knows of any joystick endowed devices. I can’t really think of any, but if there’s a suitable hardware tracker / synth type thing out there I’d love to know about it.
Cheers!
I don’t know if this is too fiddly but the first thing that came to mind.
Lab4Music enJOY – Thomann United States (thomannmusic.com)
midi /cv controller interface.
@Lampmeister
There aren’t that many midi joysticks out there on the market, but they are relatively easy to DIY.
Another suggestion I would consider is eye tracking hardware (if a DAW is gonna be used). This should be in and around the 500$ mark for decent hardware.
Touchscreen interface with stylus/mouse/trackball?
Here is a company with assisted mouse/joystick technology
https://www.boundlessat.com/Keyboards-Mice/Trackballs-Joysticks
Maybe you should also ask this question to Roger Linn (https://www.rogerlinndesign.com/). With his knowledge and experience in design and ergonomics, perhaps he can point you to a more suitable design.
I’ve no experience with this but some recent experiments I’ve done make me think that the following might work…
If a small modular system is an option you might consider something built around a USB gamepad controller or the Xbox Adaptive Controller (Xbox Adaptive Controller | Xbox) and an Expert Sleepers FH-2 (Expert Sleepers - FH-2 'factotum') to handle the gamepad to CV duties. See the FH-2 manual here and search for “HID Gamepad”.
Here’s a video demoing this with the older FH-1:
I think the gamepad route might be better because modular joysticks (e.g. Planar 2, Doepfer 3D) tend to be small in size which I think might be a challenge for someone with dexterity issues.
no clue about software but this seems very flexible:
@Lampmeister, @pmags def has a viable solution. I forgot there are a bunch of game controller to midi apps out there. For example:
I believe some DAWs (I think studio one) is one that you can just connect a game controller to it.
There’s someone who makes custom MIDI controllers and sells them on ebay, not tried any yet but they seem interesting.
That has twist as well as the usual x/y control apparently. They also do a number of other designs some of which use a little joystick.
Edit: Sorry I forgot to post the link to this.
Wow – the physical similarity to the Doepfer 3D joystick is striking!
I wonder if they’re sourcing the physical parts from the same supplier!
So now that you’ve mentioned the Doepfer JS, may as well mention three more in Eurorack, one from Erica Synths, the second from Befaco, and the third the Blue Lantern FM Joystick Pro.
Then the question to the OP, gets to be how the JS ( or two ) gets patched in to a modular to give musical performance. ( IMO a more challenging question. ) Think generative music.
Like for instance :
Left JS – tonal range / harmonic quality
Right JS – tempo or synched note subdivision / dynamic range
Extra points if you think multitimbral and polyphonic and musically. Especially if that matches a desired musical style of the musician this instrument is designed for !
To me that’s more the question.
Notes : Often loose JSs are just two pots often 10k. It would be easy to mount them ( considering the human factors of this design ) and connect to a modular synth, that would be prepatched, fixed and secluded. It might be easier to find a JS that physically matches the users needs better this way. Perhaps arcade style JSs with large spherical knobs on the top ? Use styles favored by the musician. I think the multi-dimension twist ends with buttons on the ends above is more for fighter pilots. Maybe keeping the controls simple and familiar, and add the complexity in the hidden generative modular layer. Be prepared to make adjustments to the generative layer to get it right for the musician. Also i expect you want JSs without springs.
ADDED : What i’ve just suggested is likely to get expensive : $1500 - $2000 kind of range in the end, though it could be approached in steps. Push back if that is an issue, there are other approaches, with other limitations.
ADDED :
Short shaft arcade style joystick with large spherical knobs.
Personally I’m all for Logitech Attack 3 and max msp.
Yaeltex also offers nice joysticks.
I haven’t tried to source joysticks in a few years but I’ve built them into controllers and have also repaired arcade machines. For whatever it’s worth I find the nice large arcade type sticks are usually a switch array. For pot type control I’ve usually been limited to smaller sticks, usually two pots though sometimes four. I’ve always been on a tight budget so with more money options might open up.
Important to note.
Switches could also be useful in a design, if regular buttons and switches are not acceptable, as in this case.
Blurrghost – Are these switch array joysticks often momentary switches ?
You can design around that if that is the case.
ADDED : Thinking about a sequencer design with just two joystick controls, one a switch type.
Yes. In my experience they tend to be momentary N-O switches. The quantity (usually 4 or 8 but I’ve seen 6) and physical makeup of switches varies depending on maker and intended application.
I didn’t mean to suggest you couldn’t design around them, tons of possibilities. I was just mentioning it since folks often imagine joysticks as pot based devices and they only sometimes are.
Simillar to the Enjoy product, there is another brand new one from Digit Music called CMPSR ( said “composer” ).
This was developed for musicians with accessibility needs and can also be used by everyone. There are buttons for setup but also some button use seems pretty unavoidable in playing. The joystick is the principle part though for playing once it is setup. It comes with Bitwig and some software specific for Bitwig that allows you to do specific styles of music. It does have chord modes and that can also do arpeggiation. It is set up to play in key.
It also outputs MIDI CC messages so it can work with other software and hardware, ( i thought of a generative patch with a Hydrasynth Explorer, CC mapping in the Mod Matrix ) or any hardware synth like that.
Here’s the four ways you can set it up to send MIDI CC :
So it could work in many circumstances but also seems to me it might fall short for some,
pretty cool, reminds me of an arcade race car game shifter. looks like no cv but I guess that’s sort of a compromise. the buttons are a big addition, both physically (large) and in accessibility. I also would say that in looking at it, the biggest downside might be the precision required to execute specific cc manipulation may even throw off an able user. I still think it’s a step in the correct direction. The haptic engine is interesting, I can’t help but feel the starting price is a bit daunting for what it actually is - maybe not when considering the market lacks certain types of midi controllers, but in form/function it’s not so far off (less than in function) from like a korg nanokontrol studio and that costs far less.
Still though, a step in the correct direction.
There is always MDI to CV modules, so many options in that direction, it seems unnecessary to build CV into everything, unless there is a tight connection.
Mentioned in the video are the movement ring controllers ( like the Genki Wave ( thread ), and the Neova MIDI Ring ( thread ) ) which might be an option for @Lampmeister to consider. They use larger hand movements that might be accessible, but both also use smaller movements on the ring itself setting up and sometimes in combination, which might make those devices not acceptable for this use.
Thanks y’all, I’ll send the thread to my friend for his perusal.
