Polymeters and Pattern Changes

[jemmons]

I’m not dexterous enough to manage scenes, mutes, parameter tweaks, and pattern changes all at the same time. Thankfully the OT gives me the Arranger that manages most of that for me, so I can focus on twisting knobs…

Unless one of my tracks is polymetric and then everything goes to shit.

This has been mentioned in a few older threads, so I’ll try to sum up:

• to do polymeters, set the SCALE MODE to PER TRACK, set the length to a non-multiple of four, and set MASTER to INF so that nothing resets ever.
• This is great, but now I can’t change patterns — because MASTER is INF the queued pattern waits infinite time to start.
• There are various overrides for this, but all of them reset the tracks to one, syncing up my polymeter (which is undesirable).
• There doesn’t seem to be a way to switch patterns without starting each track’s sequencer over again at one because the OT doesn’t have a “direct jump” mode like the A4.
• There’s always mention of setting a track to “PLAYS FREE”, but even a plays free track seems to get silenced when I switch patterns.

So my first question, is all of this still true in light of subsequent firmware updates? And do I have it correct or am I missing/misunderstanding anything?

And if so, how do y’all deal with this? Just avoid polymeters? Or avoid pattern changes?

Or both?

[lowph]

Maybe you can do polymeters without infinite length on the master? I don’t usually set it to infinite when I do polymetric stuff. I typically calculate a finite length for master based on the lengths of each track – then your patterns will change.

There’s a tool made by a an Elektronaut @Kalimari in this thread:

Elektron Octatrack: Track Trigs/Multiplier to Master Length Calculator

If you’ve spent any time with an Elektron Octatrack, you’ve invariably used polymeter’s at some point. And once you begin using the track TEMPO MULTIPLIER, calculating the pattern MASTER LENGTH can become tricky. So I wrote a simple script to work it out for me. I guess this might be useful to more people that just myself, so decided to share a page: to work out each pattern’s MASTER LENGTH in a simple, Octatrack centric way. UPDATE: calculators added for more Electron Devices: Analog Four …

The tool: Elektron Octatrack: Track Trigs/Multiplier to Master Length Calculator

I don’t know if this really answers your questions, but I found it extremely useful for this purpose, so it seemed relevant.

[jemmons]

@lowph

I don’t know if this really answers your questions

I don’t know either? So at least we’re in good company

I guess a possible problem I see with this is that so often there’s no common denominator between the polymetric phrase and the “main” phrase. That’s why they play off each other so well.

So, for example, if I have a track thats 7 steps long and one that is 16 steps long, there’s no common divisor. So they only meet up every 112 (that is, every 7*16) steps. Which means my I can only change patterns every 7 bars of my main 16 step rhythm. 5 steps on 16 steps would only meet every 80 steps so I can only pattern swap every 5 bars of the “main” 16 step track. Etc. etc.

So really, this means the polymetric track is what’s driving the phrasing of my song. Which is kind of the opposite of how I’d like it because it sounds most natural to me to switch up patterns after, say, 4 or 8 bars, not 5 and 7.

But maybe this is just how people do it on the OT? Are y’all swapping patterns every 5 or 7 bars and making it work? Or are you forcing the patterns to swap (resetting the polymeter) on 4s and 8s and making that work? Or are you only using a single pattern for your song? Or is there something I’m completely missing?

[lowph]

I think I understand what you’re trying to accomplish and think I followed everything you said, with the exception of this:

@jemmons

So really, this means the polymetric track is what’s driving the phrasing of my song.

What’s the polymetric track? To have a polymeter, don’t you need multiple tracks of different lengths? In that case, which one is the polymetric track?

The way I see it, the master length is driving the phrasing of your song. You can set that to 4 bars if you want, but then you’ll have the (undesired?) effect of resetting the odd length tracks every 4 bars.

I’ve played a little bit with stuff with infinite master length, but mostly as experimentation and I just recorded all the output and then used that audio in a project with finite master length… But yeah, I’m never expecting pattern changes or to use the arranger in that scenario.

[jemmons]

@lowph

What’s the polymetric track? To have a polymeter, don’t you need multiple tracks of different lengths? In that case, which one is the polymetric track?

Yeah, sorry. My vocabulary is very poor when it comes to explaining this stuff.

Let me give an example: I have a song where the kick, snare, hats, claps — all are sequences that run for 16 steps then loop back to their beginnings.

So it feels like the “main” rhythm of the song has 16 steps per bar. It “feels” best transitioning between patterns every 4 or 8 bars. So, with 16 step bars, I’d want to transition patterns only after 64 (416) or 128 (816) steps.

All of this is how the OT (and most groove boxes) work by default. This is standard.

But then, to add interest, I add a track for stabs. But this track is only runs 7 steps before looping back to the beginning. What I’d like is for this 7-note bar to play polymetrically against my many 16-note bars.

But there’s a catch. To set my track to have a length of only 7 steps I have to change the OT to let me specify a different length per track. No problem.

But now the OT doesn’t know when it should allow transitioning to a queued pattern. Should it do it after 16 steps? Or after 7 steps? That’s what MASTER is for.

Because the main beat of our song is centered around 16-step bars, we want transitions to happen on 16 step intervals. So we set MASTER to 16 and that should be it.

But the OT has another quirk up its sleeve. When transitioning to a new pattern, it resets all of the tracks’ sequencers to step one. This effectively cuts off our 7-note bar in the middle of playing back, which I would very much like to avoid.

The ideal solution would be to tell the OT “When switching patterns, rather than resetting every track’s sequencer to the first step, keep it at whatever step it was just on.” Then patterns would switch on the 16 (because of the MASTER setting) but my 7-note bar wouldn’t be cut off because it keeps its position. This is what the A4 calls DIRECT JUMP and seems to be impossible on the OT?

The other solution is the one you point out. If you don’t want the 16-step bar or the 7-step bar to be interrupted when switching patterns, but the OT always resets the sequencers to one when switching patterns, then the solution is to only switch patterns when both 16- and 7-beat bars would naturally be at step one already.

This only happens every 112 steps (7*16). So we set MASTER to 112, and now the only time we can switch patterns is when all sequencers would be at step one anyway, so nothing is ever reset. Problem solved!

Except that, recall from above, the song feels like it’s primarily 16-notes per bar and thus feels like the most natural time to switch patterns up is after 64 beats (4 bars) or 128 beats (8 bars).

112 is neither 64 nor 128 and in practice it feels really awkward switching patterns then. But that’s the only time patterns can be switched without cutting off either the 16-beat or 7-beat bars.

So, given the impossible situation above, I’d like to know how OT artists deal with this in their music? They can:

• Set MASTER to 112 and ignore the fact that it feels awkward to be switching patterns then.
• Set MASTER to 16 and ignore the fact that the 7-beat bar is getting cut off.
• Forget about switching patterns at all. Just play one pattern for the entire song.
• Forget about polymeters at all. Just make all bars 16-beats long (or any multiple of 4).

Each of the above has been very awkward for me to cope with, so I’m hoping to find out what others in the community do to deal with this so that I can learn coping mechanisms

[Octagonist]

If most of the groove has a 4 or 8 bar cycle, I imagine resetting the polymeter would “feel right”.

If you’re using the polymeter to tease out a breakdown/build-up you might want the flexibility of letting it play an uncertain length. You could set the length at the multiple (e.g. that 112 from above) which would probably make the crowd trip up a bit (could be fun). You could queue up the next pattern, stop the sequencer and restart it when the moment felt right.

[PeterHanes]

@jemmons

given the impossible situation above, I’d like to know how OT artists deal with this in their music? They can:

• Set MASTER to 112 and ignore the fact that it feels awkward to be switching patterns then.
• Set MASTER to 16 and ignore the fact that the 7-beat bar is getting cut off.
• Forget about switching patterns at all. Just play one pattern for the entire song.

You are correctly spelling out the inherent contradiction in your opposition to both the first two options.

So use the third option: maybe use a FILL to prepare you and the audience for a pattern change, and also:

@jemmons

I’m not dexterous enough to manage scenes, mutes, parameter tweaks

learn to make use of the above techniques, the true Elektron way of jamming in a single pattern.

[Microtribe]

@PeterHanes

maybe use a FILL to prepare you and the audience for a pattern change, and also:

This. Or some variation of it.

Its totally fine to have sounds drop out for a few bars then come back in. If they all come back in on the 1, it will make more sence to the audience , they wont be counting the polymeter in their heads while the break happening. Also, the groove needs to come back in on the 1 so it feels like a return.