Punk 2021

punk is primarily an attitude. angry people converge in clubs, make abrasive music as an outlet and unifying force. the punk attitude transcends genres, and i would think drives people to create more music, but usually it’s not innovative and new genres are rare.

now is not the time to anticipate exciting new music, just because we are fucked.

and i guess i am real boring for saying that technology has often driven musical innovation. a new instrument with a novel sound arrive, people like it and poof! you’ve got a new genre. but we’ve had near infinite possibilities in sound design for decades, accessible to all. weird and interesting sounds are boring. do not hold your breath waiting for a new instrument that makes you sound totally unique.

so, marshall amps were more important than attitude or plight when it comes to '77 UK punk music. but actually UK punk music wasn’t particularly innovative, US punks provided a complete blue-print on a silver platter, but over there it was an art movement and extension of warhol, not a teenage fashion trend.

and what about all those so-cal punks in early 80’s. a lot of angst, innovation not so much. one bad religion is enough.

i decline to comment on green day, who are so far removed from anything punk. they are a good time party band.

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Really depends on what you consider art. The digital age has produced some very cool art in loads of forms from multimedia, projections, textiles, 3D printing, Minecraft scapes, video games, electronic music, etc. It’s just not kept in a museum or has the classic notoriety. I’m a huge fan of Contemporary art where artists are doing amazing things these days.

Technology will change, we will adapt. And I’m very much looking forward to breaking out of this digital age into the next iteration and likely, even more technologically advanced era. With the world burning as it is, I think we’re going to see breakthroughs out of necessity for change. At least I hope so. Art always survives as it’s sometimes, all we have left.

Interesting on the Punk topic. You’d think we’d see more aggressive music to counter the current social media idiocy and political turmoil. Only band that sticks out for me in that genre lately is Pussy Riot. And they’ve been quiet af. Hopefully still alive.

It depends on what you mean by “punk”

Abrasive guitars - yeah not much going on, tbh

Abrasive music - take your noise pick

Abrasive music with antiestablishment themes - f yes @Wolf-Rami Special Interest, Pink Siifu, death grips, Arca, Sophie, Fever Ray lots more

Music with antiestablishment themes - take your pick from most black a/o female a/o queer artists and the rare white men

Antiestablishment communities - Bandcamp and

Just because it ain’t white men doesn’t mean it ain’t punk af.

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There is truth to that, of course. I guess as you age you learn subconsciously or not what you like the most and you tend to be naturally drawn to those sort of things. I suppose I’ve never really liked rap and hip-hop type styles. The former kind of leads into grime so I guess that explains that.

At the end of the day, I don’t really care. I’m quite happy listening to my favourite synth pop stuff safe in the knowledge that what I like will never go away. I’m still discovering new bands regularly and still spending fortunes on albums. And on the flip side, if my kids find something that gives them a voice then that will be great to witness too.

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Interesting comment this. I think I look at it less about anticipating music and more about making it. Reminds me of Joey Beltram talking about him feeling like he missed the boat on the music he was inspired by Chicago House, but later releasing he was at the beginning of something much harder in Techno which was sculpted partially by him.

New genres and new music is often in the dialogue that comes after, the media using their tool, words, to understand something. The new and the innovation comes as much in technology as it does in the framing after the fact.

I’m not sure we are fucked, I guess it depends on what values you have on life, but it is exciting to discover something through moments of transition and at the moment we have a massive collective transition, so it will be interesting to look back on this and see what has occurred, although ideally we are involved in that shaping.

I find this super interesting as well. I often wonder about iconic machines being used in less iconic ways. How much does the legacy or intent behind a machine influence the creation on/with it? I think one thing noteworthy is so much discussion around technology s one that is either shared or in opposition. Knowledge about a machine moves way beyond the instruction manual and that wasn’t always the case. So exploration was in a much purer place than it is now with everything being available everywhere. Reminds me of movements often being connected to small collectives as the sound is explored and developed, 1st/2nd phase Detroit Techno guys learning from each other, Wu-Tang Clan supporting solo albums, Beastie Boys learning from RUN DMC and the whole Def Jam lot. It feels just as important for us to understand how we share as it does to decide if we do at all.

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Yeah totally. I think not caring as much is probably the better attitude to have honestly. This is something we (me and my wife) talk about loads with music and releasing, actively working on not giving a shit. A phrase we often say when we get up our arse is “who cares” and then we ship the thing and it is what it is. Feels really good.

I grew up on electronic music but was also into hip-hop although also didn’t get into Grime. Although I understood it more coming from wanted to be like America Hiphop but feel like an idiot putting on an American accent in post Garage/Drum n Bass London haha. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I was never really into this location segmentation based representation, and Grime felt like one perspective on London, but I appreciate I am super ignorant on Grime and probably sound like when people said Gangster Rap glorified crime…well, if it did it was more about the receiver and police control than the intention in many cases, not that Gangster Rap was the good part of hip-hop.

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Enya is the new punk

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:sob:

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When I go to Camden ( I guess thought to be the home of punk in many ways , and other subcultures ). One of the main stores still selling punk clothing had a sign on the door something along the lines of ‘ no returns possible as these are for costumes only ‘. Can’t remember the actual phrase.

Costumes :slight_smile:
I’ve had Mohawks and been a bit punk years ago but not due to the music.
Some thought disco was anti establishment, then rock , then new wave etc.
I even saw beastie boys the 1st time they hit the uk. That was just as punk to me than any sex pistols was to my older brothers.

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I had the chance to see Beastie Boys back in the late 90’s but I think from memory we were late in getting tickets, so never saw them live. Would have loved to.

I dunno. I wouldn’t call early 80’s UK punk bands like Cockney Rejects, Crass, Cock Sparrer etc. ‘middle class’.

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Coming to the conversation late… I think this video answers the OP’s question.

It’s not that art is dead or that there is no new music. Due to delivery methods and that there is no longer the filters that defined music scenes in the past. It’s a free for all.

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Punk rock talk reminds me of this hilarious Onion article:

I always leaned more towards the US hardcore / punk sound of DK, Black Flag, Fugazi, and crossover … DRI, Suicidal Tendencies.

Not better or worse, just a different aesthetic I guess.

About the people, later in life I did become friends with a few real punks from the early UK scene … definitely not middle class. Still fighting the good fight in the early 2000s.

Peace

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Next time my nephew visits I’ll get the links. I’ll probably see him in a few days. @pokk also

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Fugazi = best band ever.

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Yeah love some Fugazi. Saw them live several times in Aus an UK over the years.

One of the coolest things about them (as you no doubt remember) … despite coming over to Aus from the US: they got local kids to organise the gigs, charge a maximum of 10 bucks entry, with local bands supporting … an play the most obscure of venues on the outer edges of big cities.

Who the feck needs a record industry? :wink:

Really aware people too … almost Zen like lyrics. Incredible band.

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As a teen there was this trend of yellow bracelets with the acronymn W(hát)W(ould)J(esus)D(o)…I came this close then to getting the tattoo WWI(an)D

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No there are and were definitely exceptions both to the bands and the audiences, I was speaking from the viewpoint of me and my mates back then, it didn’t resonate with us, yet strangely electro from mostly the US did.

But this is about 2021, right? Ok future!

This is the ‘new’ sound from Bristol UK (last few years anyway). It’s pretty punk with a techno / electronic vibe … definitely something I’d enjoy live.

Giant Swan

Since they use Eurorack / modular, we can assume middle class LOL (joke).

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I’m sure anybody who has eyeballs could see it coming, but we’re headed for a major cultural shift.

The best music may be timeless and transcend space and time and even language and culture, but all music initially exists in a social context, in a dialogue with listeners and other artists who may be producing at the time. Relevance is an important factor in this relation. People want to hear music that represents their dreams and struggles and aspirations. Punk was one such movement which resonated with many people at a specific time in the 20th century. Older folks didn’t understand it, as it didn’t speak to their situation. Conversely, younger punk fans rejected their parents’ mainstream rock music for the same reasons.

The irony is that although young and old seem to reject the other’s chosen idioms, they are both subscribing to cultures and identities that are artificially created by media companies and a culture machine that was tightly controlled (at least at the time). The fledgling punk bands of the late 70’s in New York and the U.K. were not aware that they were simultaneously inventing a genre. To create the sense that a new mentality was forming required a lot of print ink and television time, all to paint a (not always accurate) picture of an awakening punk consciousness that rejected the patriarchal, hierarchical, commercial structures of the mainstream “stadium rock” which had swindled their parents. Soon enough, many new young people had hopped on board, but not before the clever media manipulation of the major record labels and their associated properties.

The INTERNET changed this in some very fundamental ways. First, it upended the tightly controlled structure of record labels and music media. They also made redundant many of the support roles for musicians, like booking and management. Suddenly there was no gatekeeper, no barriers between artists and listeners. If you wanted to hear something, you were now empowered to find it, and even the most explorative artist might find their niche in the endless sea of listeners. New genres began to pop up nearly every day.

Nobody is going to want to admit it because of personal pride or nostalgia, but punk is going to suffer the same decline and gradual fading into nothingness as the fatuous bloated rock bands they railed against. Though it tried to serve other ends, it still relied on a version of the same machine. And so much of that machinery either doesn’t or CAN’T exist now.

What would punk be without shows? Without touring? Without bars and small DIY spaces? Can it exist in a socially isolated digital bubble, or will it have to morph into something else in order to be relevant to listeners?

I think we’re still processing the ramifications of how much the world has changed. Many of the dilettantes and part-timers are realizing this is going to be much more difficult and dangerous than its worth, and those that choose to trudge on are going to have to find new ways to even EXIST in the new reality.

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