Will people stop making music if AI becomes superior in music making?

The Lounge General Discussion
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With the current state of AI in creative spaces like music, the person doing the prompting still needs taste and an artistic eye/ear to generate something approximating “art”. How long that limitation will last is probably not. As in, “not long”.

However, current AI generated music is also mostly crappy fuzzy quality, and not in a good “lo-fi” way. It is also fragmented in that there isn’t much persistent “vision”. Try getting AI to generate an entire song and you’ll see what I mean. Time based stuff is still hard for AI. That said, some new AI generation tools are bridging that gap and getting better at making consistent tracks from beginning to end.

But they are in no way something you would release. Noisy, full of artifacts, weird alien vocals (if you’re doing vocals), etc.

But generative AI is getting better exponentially. Ask me the same question as soon as next week and see where we are.

But there is no joy in simply entering prompts and getting MP3s back.

Given the CURRENT state of AI music generation, I can see using AI as maybe an idea jump-starter if you’re feeling creatively stuck, especially to someone on a deadline. Get something raw as a starting point, then actually play/produce a song for real with the AI generated thing as a reference. Also, if you’re focused on a VERY specific thing to enhance your existing work, like, you need a specific part for a track you’re working on and can use something generative to “roll the dice” to generate some audio or MIDI.

But again, ask me again next week. We may be headed toward a future where live performance becomes more highly valued again because the lines between recorded “real” music and AI music become VERY blurred.

To answer the original question? No.

Whether AI is “better” or not, real musicians make music because they love to make music. I don’t care if a human is “better” than me at making music, so an AI being “better” than me will have the same non-effect. I will still make music.

84

So tired of this bullshit but will chip in because you’re good people!

AI art can never ever ever be art. It simply cannot. Art = human expression and AI isn’t human. You can make another category of thing up but it ain’t art.

AI art can be collage of previous human expression or attempts at human expression or the art can be how a human has built an algorithm which itself is the art. Or someone can make some art about how an AI thing made them feel. But the raw output is not art and never can be.

Art is about feeling, about humanity and about creation from human experience and feelings.

Chess playing robots haven’t stopped people playing chess. In fact, chess playing robots are boring now while humans playing chess is still fascinating and will possibly be forever. Playing chess is also fun and beautiful. And human. As is chess itself on a conceptual level as a thing created by humans.

Art is a way of feeling human and stepping into the shoes of other people across centuries.

Making music itself, whether improvising alone into the ether, recording or performing is an amazing feeling separate from the output but somehow at the heart of it. AI art can pretend to have human feeling but cannot ever be the same and if we let it fool us we are losing sense of our humanity. On a side note saying let’s stop making music because there’s some other music is like saying stop playing piano because you can just listen to Mary Lou Williams or Chopin instead.

I’m a big lyrics person so this is even sillier in that context. AI could possibly be trained to write a lyric like Nina Nastasia’s “I guess I’ll just stay in hell with you, if this is love” but it couldn’t possibly carry the same meaning without the abusive relationship that spawned it.

As far as I’m concerned, the whole discussion is an art-killer in a very different way than we think it is in that it’s distracting people from actually making and soaking in real art. Don’t let it fool you folks. Keep making, it’s what makes us human.

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85

what’s the difference between generative and ai? also what if i set everything to random, is that ai too?

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No but some people will surely try to monetize on this trickery.

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87

No dig on threadposter but I feel like the question itself is being put forth by AI bros only interested in money and clout and hate the time and journey of creation.

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The entire all good AND all evil dichotomy is being used by the techbro/lesswrong startup types (or similar aspirationals)

I agree that it’s GAS level worthless shower thoughts.

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If you don’t care for the process, then stop making music. Don’t wait for AI to come along and be better. I know a couple of individuals that like to drag and drop Splice samples into Ableton, export a new track that sounds completely formulaic and act like they created something original.

Nothing against Splice or sampling, but if you are only interested in taking selfies at the finish line, taking the fastest, easiest route and not honing your skills/ creativity, you are missing the point.

Separate but related - I’m an architect by day and there is a similar conversation regarding AI generated design/ graphics. Not long ago I spent a day binging on Mid-Journey, getting familiar with the process, trying to understand how I could get it to do what I wanted via the “right” prompts, etc. It was so unsatisfying. Mid-Journey takes so many liberties and quickly you realize, “Oh, this is just what the masses want, that 85% percent of the populace that thinks this imagery is sufficient, gets the job done.” The experience got me back to sketching, relishing the fact that my pen would go where I wanted. I will happily flesh out my own ideas rather than sit around trying to figure out the right text prompt.

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Even without AI there were already botnets uploading fake Spotify tracks for botnets to consume, no humans involved.

See also Youtube sludge content

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91

Did people stop expressing themselves when writing was invented? When the printing press democratized distribution? When player pianos encouraged families to purchase a new musical instrument? When Radio allowed the broadcasting of vinyl records to anyone with a receiver? When Guitars went electric? When soundsystem culture built massive bass bins? When the internet democratized distribution again? :joy:

Did people stop expressing themselves when a xerox machine was made?? No they made millions of zines! 1% of which turned into actual magazines and real businesses!

People will never stop expressing themselves!

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92

I can’t wait for AI to make a new Elvis and Tupac duet also the forthcoming DJ Abraham Lincoln remix is massive!!

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93

This. 1000%

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94

This. Without tiers of work it’s nearly impossible for people to get better at what they do (and be able to make a living as they do). The quest for eliminating inefficiencies inadvertently kills those tiers. AI will kill a lot of the low-hanging fruit (in the name of eliminating efficiencies), but in the process it also kills a way for people to survive long enough to get good enough to pick the high-hanging fruit. You don’t just start off going head-to-head with Hans Zimmer, plus with no name or exposure, it doesn’t matter if you are “better” than Hans Zimmer, he’s Hans Zimmer.

I see that in my industry, where thankfully I’m in a good spot. The ladders that enabled me to get to where I am are mostly gone though (pre-AI). I think it would be very hard for people to get the experience that enabled me to get here. AI will wipe out the few ladders that remain. I think that’s happening or will happen across huge swaths of industries.

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I’m going to use AI to destroy all music except mine, and become the god-emperor of music. Sorry, not sorry.

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This is a factor I don’t see brought much either. I see the argument “People complained the printing press killed jobs… it just made better jobs” - but that’s a single invention having an influence on a single industry (with some but likely minor spillover.) I feel like this modern shift is happening / going to intensify across many sectors all at once.

Another note I will make. I’m aware that a lot of the tools we call AI have already existed and been the norm in many applications for a while now. The whole term AI itself is something of a fad, but the cultural moment around this fad is no doubt fueling interest and further development faster than it may have happened otherwise.

I don’t think any of this is inherently bad. Growth is good. I just think our current society already sucks at managing things like the wealth and benefits this new boom in productivity could potentially bring. So I’m not very optimistic this is going to be a net positive for the average folks.

Back to music for a second. I’m just getting to a place where I’ve had a few reasonably profitable soundtrack gigs under my belt and some prospects / connections gained where I could consider giving it a shot full-time.

I’m not trying to predict the future and in all honestly the first swath of folks who embrace these tools and make them part of their workflow have the best chance at doing well, but its some of these themes that have me keeping a foot in the door of my relatively secure path in Mechanical Engineering / Mechatronics.

I’m quite literally “Not quitting my day job” for now.

I also happen to enjoy my work quite a bit. It’s got its own creative challenges and never-ending quirks to learn. Those dang robots are going to need servicing and upgrades for at least a couple years before they start doing it themselves, right? Right? :robot:

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I love to insanely prompt my Music LM model, harvest the best pieces using Ableton and then mangle the samples is my M:S.

I could totally see me performing with my Google Collab and a mk I Octatrack. Cyberpunk as hell.

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Music is an expression of our humanity. Therefore, music created by A.I. would be pointless, no matter how good or bad it might be.

If we’re not connecting with each other, earnestly and honestly, in ways that speak directly to our own struggles, insecurities, failures, and accomplishments, then it serves no purpose.

At that point, you may as well let A.I. hang with your friends, play with your children, and make love to your significant other.

You know, we can choose not to use it. Hell, we could stop developing it altogether, but people are too shortsighted to do that.

:wink:

Cheers!

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I don’t have the slightest worry that some AI is going to write my music before I do. What an absurd idea. That being so, I don’t care what AI “writes” or doesn’t.

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Funk won’t be affected… no worries.

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I love the way you think. You win.

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102

Sounds like current pop music to me :wink:.

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